To use a chokechain?

[AsahiGo]

Looking for some advice and brutal honesty, hence posting in this section haha. Also sorry for the long post.

We've had our gorgeous labsky for two months, he's a second-hand dog, and aside from being an obnoxious teenager at times, he's generally good. However, on walks he is a nightmare.

He drags, and it's BAD. To add context, my husband and I are both powerlifters, and we both struggle with him! We've tried a harness (swiftly found it gives him more power to drag through his shoulders - I swear he thanked us for it!), We've tried a halti. With the halti, it did hinder his pulling BUT, he learnt that if he walks slightly side-ways, he can still do whatever he wants. And then he started walking on his hind legs whilst trying to get the halti off with his front paws.

The other issue we have is that he is fixated on cars. He lunges at anything that moves, and yesterday he knocked my daughter into the road in front of a 4x4 (SHE IS FINE! luckily). He was on a halti and another lead attached to his collar as a backup. He still managed to get off the curb.

At the moment, I'm walking him at 4am (less traffic!) and I'm wrapping the lead around my waist and using my body weight against him. It's the only thing I can think of doing at the moment. Treats don't work - he flat out refuses them on walks, in fact, he completely ignores me.

I loathe choke chains. But I feel like I'm running out of options, and due to his fixation on chasing vehicles, it's only a matter of time before an accident happens. We have seen a couple of trainers, and they didn't know what to do with him. The last guy screamed 'FUCKING HELL!' as he was yanked across his paddock.

Obviously I need to walk this dog, but I don't know how to do it safely anymore. AIBU to try a choke chain?

Hi, I had a pully lab. In my experience the choke chain made no difference whatsoever. It didn’t stop the pulling, the dog just pulled anyway, and the chain made her cough.

I used a half check instead, which is just as effective, or ineffective.

Also, the choice of lead makes a lot of difference. A lead with just a handle is no good. You need to look out for one of those long leads with two D rings, one in the middle and one up by the collar clip. Have the lead on the shortest setting, that’s to say the long end of the lead clipped to the D ring up by the collar. It gives you more control of the dog because you can hold them on a very short lead so they have less leverage, and because of the design of the lead it means you hold it in a different way, so the weight of the dog is going up your arm, rather than pulling on your wrist joint. Those leads with loop handle are ridiculous if you have a large dog. I don’t know why manufacturers persist in making them, they offer no control whatsoever and they’re not up to the job. If you ever see a guide dog owner with their dog this is the kind of lead they use. Much safer and gives far more close control.

Really though it sounds like you either need a better trainer or you need a different dog.

Have you tried this kind of approach? He has a lot of videos and they seem to use real dogs rather than one which is already trained. Showing how to break down the training into smaller steps. Sounds like you might be trying too much too soon.

@Annabk thank you very much for getting back to me. I will look at the harness you've recommended. I've only let him off the lead once - his previous told me he has no recall, and that he will run off (and being a husjy that makes sense). I found a decent field and let him off and his recall was hit and miss. That was over the summer, but now the field is in constant use (school) so I haven't been able to use that one again.
I have just got an email back about some secure spaces I can rent (relieved) so I can let him charge about on that and use it for training.

I have a pulling dog but he is small

I use bungees, surely these are less stress on animal and human?

Will also look at leads. He was given to us on a retractable puppy lead >.< currently we use a bridle leather one

Re pulling into traffic my dog does this on a road he doesn’t like, where there is no grass verge between him and the traffic. It’s anxiety/stress, it doesn’t seem to make sense to pull in traffic but I can see that he would cross the road if I let him it is almost like he feels trapped on the pavement
I never walk ddog on small pavements or where the speed limit is over 30mph as he always does this. I try to walk off road or on paths with grass verges

We're boxed in by busy roads, and whilst there are some nice, quiet green areas/woods, we have to cross several to get to them.

Is he anxious in the car?

@BertieBotts I've seen some of his videos before but not this one; thank you

Oh god, don’t use one of those extendable things. Then they just get a run at pulling you over, and the jolt comes as one shock and you’ve no way of stopping it. I hate the bloody things anyway but with a large powerful dog they’re dangerous.

Where did you get the dog from? Can the breeder/rescue centre offer you any advice?

We don't own one, so not really sure. he weren't bothered when we brought him home in a friends car however.

Do you have a decent sized garden? Can you teach him to walk without pulling in the garden (even if you're walking in small circles) first?

@Whatisthisfuckery seeing the retractable thing made me angry lol, he had a different lead the next day.
We rehomed him from a family. When asked about walking (when we went to collect him), got a lot of very vague answers. Basically, he wasn't walked. He did have a harness with them, but apparently their trainer told them he didn't need one.

If he is ok in the car it might be better to drive to the open spaces a short distance until he is less stressed and anxious about cars going past him. I think you are doing the right thing trying to expose him to traffic slowly ie when it is quiet. My dog is 6 and I think will always be really scared of cars going past so also tend to walk him at quiet times or in car free places as I don’t think it’s fair on him. But people’s advice about car exposure is good, he just needs time I reckon.

You have 2 problems, the anxiety is setting off the pulling and I don’t believe you will get much decent training done whilst he is in an anxious state and it’s dangerous. I think work on lead work in a quiet place, not just try to find a contraption to continue walking him down a road he hates

Echoing PP

1. Get a trainer, equipment may mask it but you need to fix the underlying behaviour - including recall

1. Do not use a choke or prong collar - negative reinforcement is least effective and causes issues long term

1. I'd suggest having a look at Zak George on youtube - join the fb page "Pupford's 30 day perfect pup with Zak George". There's loads of owners with bad behaviour experience that'll give you some useful information if you post there.

Is this your first dog? To everyone else reading - please DO NOT get a challenging dog breed if you're not well versed in behavioural training and have experience, never mind a rescue with existing issues. It's a recipe for disaster

@AmIThough yup, have a garden, I could try that. Maybe five minutes at a time several times a day, keep it short, and loads of fuss. Maybe that could work?

OP same here - I have an adopted dog never walked he was a total nightmare on roads. I’m 6 months in and walking at quiet times is really helping him learn

@Luullz thanks for your help. No, not my first dog

@AsahiGo yeah I'm just thinking once he knows exactly how to behave on the lead - ie focus on your commands, no pulling, sit when told, not get distracted by birds etc, it'll be much easier to then introduce him to roads etc because he'll be well behaved enough to listen when you talk to him

If ddog is pulling into the road when cars go past I often just stop walking completely, try calm him down a bit and do this slowly up the road so it’s safe. I think the worst thing to do is rush him up a road trying to get him to the quieter place, he will know this is what you are doing and be in a heightened state as well

Thanks everyone for all your help and comments and whatnot. I get I'm coming across as all over the place, and you're all probably thinking 'this is why idiots should own dogs', but I'm really trying with this dog, I refuse to give up on him, and I'll take all the help and tips I can get. We're not flitting from different method-method, a lot of what I'm doing is researching things 'in -case'. I want to help him, I want him to have a good life.

god, I meant SHOULDNT own dogs. case in point I guess.

Huskies and husky crossed naturally have an enormously strong pulling and prey drive. It will take a lot of positive reinforcement training to break whatever bad habits he's got into. You will need a proper harness designed for huskies and dogs that pull so that he doesn't injure himself. Watch Kilo pup's videos on YouTube, read John Bradshaw's In Defence of Dogs, and another book called Total Recall. All should put you in good stead. I would also recommend working with a professional positive reinforcement dog trainer on this so you can learn to get the best out of your dog. The fact it is a Labrador cross suggests it will have high food motivation which will work in your favour. Best of luck.

*Kikopup

@WorldEndingFire - is that Kikopups?

Thank you very much, will look into your suggestions