To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

I don’t think any political party here is evil, people will always want a choice and will pick the best fit.

I like their tougher stance in benefits but disagreed the introduction of free school meals as that money could have funded TAs instead etc.

No party will ever please all or meet all expectations, it’s the closest fit to your beliefs that you vote for.

All countries run at a deficit. Ours isn't particularly high and has been higher.
It was just used as a tool to push austerity because most people don't know what it means.
It's also no better due to austerity. I'm astounded so many fell for it.

No party will ever please all or meet all expectations, it’s the closest fit to your beliefs that you vote for.
Generally I hear this and I think 'evil' is the wrong word anyway.

But, up until this election, it was unanimous and unspoken that all parties believed in, and would uphold, the core areas of our constitution. Then you had a range of political ideologies to choose from.

This time out, one party is running on a ticket of 'Fuck Parliament' while it's leader, the prime minister, indicates a willingness to break the law to appeal to certain voters.

I usually vote to the left but, even if I loved a Labour manifesto, if the party showed contempt for the basic principles and democratic institutions of our country, and thought their ideology transcended the law, they would not have my vote. The short term political gain is not worth the long-term damage to political norms.

I hope there are a lot of quiet, traditionally-Conservative voters who feel the same about the nominal Conservative Party at present.

familycourtq-Are the DUP now Tories - whilst i don't like or suport any of 'em I think the DUP would be annoyed to be called Tories. Just let's get the facts straight here, as much as dislike them, the ERG alone didn't stop the WA

The DUP were paid a ton of money to shore up the Tories after they lost their majority so in the matter of a crucial vote they were expected to behave like extra-tories. Their failure to support, along with the rebels, caused the WA to fail, as I said.

@Reversiblesequinsforadults

It’s such a difficult question isn’t it? By no means do I profess to have all the answers and I am not trying to trivialise the complexities of addiction.

But I do struggle to have the same sympathies for those suffering chronic illnesses / disabilities as those who appear to be making choices that affect them and everyone around them detrimentally. The former have no choice but to endure their awful circumstances - the latter have an opportunity to make changes. That is where I believe taking responsibility for yourself comes in. I suppose this is what some people would call the deserving and undeserving poor. It seems that some people feel that there should be an unconditional, never ending safety net.

They know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

It seems that some people feel that there should be an unconditional, never ending safety net.
Benefits aren't generous.
The problem with making them conditional (even means tested) is -
It's a massive admin overhead
It can be very subjective and susceptible to political and idealogical interference.

Look at the 2 child rule and the issues around rape.

Look at the bedroom tax

It is very very hard not punish people unfairly and unreasonably once you start making more and more conditions.

Its a hostile environment for disabled people.

a. many are being found fit for work when they are not.
b. public transport. How many times have we heard on here about parents buggies taking up wheelchair space on buses. Driver cant be arsed to get ramp out. Then there are the trains. That dont have space for a wheelchair or mobility scooter or a coffee cart is parked in the space.

This country is very keen on finding disabled people FIT for work but not so keen on enabling them to GET to work (for those that can)

c. then there are the employers themselves (see my link on a previous page)

The DUP were paid a ton of money to shore up the Tories after they lost their majority so in the matter of a crucial vote they were expected to behave like extra-tories
That's not what I expected - but then as you probably gathered, I'm not a Tory voter. Expecting the DUP to support that WA was never going to end well for TM or the Tories and it's a mystery to me why anyone thought otherwise. In fact one could argue it was them that defeated it rather trying to place the entire blame on the ERG.

But I do struggle to have the same sympathies for those suffering chronic illnesses / disabilities as those who appear to be making choices that affect them and everyone around them detrimentally

As a matter of interest would you also favour making people who drove recklessly and crashed pay for any NHS treatment they needed?

What about Fat people?

The fact is either you think we're all in it together or you are bsuy trying to find a reason why someone is less deserving than you.

I am just thankful I never succumbed to alcoholism - but I don't think it makes me special, just fortunate.

It seems that some people feel that there should be an unconditional, never ending safety net

It's more about acknowledging the realities of the problem and looking at what's actually more cost effective.

1. Lock up addicts in prison - very expensive, perpetuates cycle
2. Do nothing and leave the emergency services to deal with the fallout - diverts services away from where they are needed
3. Provide social care and medical support - not without cost but is the only route out of addiction, and avoids strain on other services

I like their tougher stance in benefits but disagreed the introduction of free school meals as that money could have funded TAs instead etc

This tory "stance" has meant families being relocated out of London to the regions, losing family and friend networks, has led to more homelessness and more deaths on the streets...inhumane.

Kids going to school hungry is well documented, children that are fed, will work and behave better, less need for TA's! its not really rocket science.

We all feel like shite if our energy levels are low but unfortunately not all parents do the right thing and the state needs to step in.

Its unbelievable that children go without sufficient food during school holidays.
...and people wonder why they fall prey to gangs.

Then again, tory voters don't give a fuck about any of this, so long as they their get tougher sentences and tax cuts.

Austerity. For those implying that this was in some way fiscally competent, I was studying Economics when they brought that in, and you should have heard what my lecturers said about that.

Instead of money being given to low-to-middle income people who would have spent it and kept the economy going, it was given to high income people who stashed it in offshore companies and found ways of not paying tax on it.

Also - UC - just heartless.

For the record, I don't think Conservatives are evil (not all of them, anyway) but I do think they've had a bit of a compassion bypass.

If you get votes by fucking the poor, why not?

Not a loaded question my aunt Fanny!

Let's see, I'm a single mum who is sick and disabled with a disabled child I've been struggling with all those issues from pretty much the time when the tories got back into power

So why don't we look at basic human needs?

Housing - increased homelessness (been there myself), reduced rights/protection for private tenants , higher rents and mortgage rates, less social housing, less specialised housing for elderly/disabled...

Food - increased prices, less stability in the area due to all the brexit nonsense, increased food bank use

Healthcare - massive cuts, meaning far fewer resources for the sick and disabled, hospitals, GP surgeries, pharmacies, dentists and opticians closing due to cuts plus poor economy, long waiting lists for diagnosis let alone treatment, poor staffing levels (including a huge exodus of eu nationals because of brexit) putting both patients and staff at risk of direct & indirect harm, higher risk/incidence of medical errors, lack of co-operative functioning across linked services particularly health and social care but also social services and education, removal of the nursing bursary means we will soon be facing an even more critical lack of nursing staff...

Education - massive cuts meaning the quality and availability is reduced, children with disabilities or other impediments to making the most of education not getting the support needed, basic equipment & resources unavailable, LITERALLY crumbling buildings (a friend of mine who teaches in England had a piece of ceiling plaster fall on her mid lesson the other week!), many good teachers leaving the profession simply because they are finding the stress of these issues too much and having to protect their own health...

Social care - again massive cuts, nowhere near enough residential places or community workers for the work needed and many of these are leaving because they cannot cope working without the needed resources or staffing levels, poor regulation & enforcement of what rules there are, the lack of residential places mean people are bed blocking in hospitals as they're not safe at home...

Emergency services - cut to the bone, ambulances not getting to patients in time or patients left in horrific circumstances for several hours, fires not being attended as swiftly as they should be putting lives (including firefighters) and property at risk, police numbers decimated putting officers at higher risk of assault (my brothers friend was horrendously assaulted last year while attending a burglary in profess report solo - not something they would choose to do if correctly resourced - he had broken bones, spinal damage and his head was stamped on by the burglars/assailants and he was in hospital for months. He's had precious little help/support with his recovery and was pressured to return to work before he was really ready), and as a victim of crime you can well wait several hours before anyone even contacts you.

Employment - huge levels of unemployment across the country which they will not even acknowledge, fudging stats and having ridiculous rules like 1 hour per fortnight of paid work = classed as employed! Decimation of workers rights, pay has dropped significantly in real terms, NO investment in job creation

Money - sort of crosses over with their above obviously, but also welfare benefits - frozen so effectively reduced in real terms, the callous implementation of pip and UC and the utterly disgusting creation of rules like the bedroom tax and the "rape clause" in tax credits, numerous "mistakes", made it incredibly hard for claimants to even speak with a real person if they experience problems, closing job centres, the frankly Victorian sanctions system, targets (though not admitted there's been several journalists have found evidence to the contrary) for getting people off the books or not receiving as much as they were, sneaking in a change to the rules on child maintenance not being counted for benefits calculations, constantly changing rules, amounts, people like me who are reliant on them are TERRIFIED of "rocking the boat" and ending up with even less money than they're already receiving... Plain draconian altogether!

Defence - massive cuts mean huge reductions in number of serving soldiers and that they are ill equipped to perform their roles, once they retire from service life they are largely unsupported and many veterans are street homeless and unsupported with physical and mental poor health as a result of their service. There are very few military hospitals still open and civilian healthcare even if they weren't also suffering from cuts are not trained/experienced in the nuances of supporting veterans

General infrastructure throughout the uk has been crashed - councils are struggling to run their locations with hugely reduced budgets so roads, pipework, utilities lines, lighting are poorly maintained, refuse collection, street cleaning services are cut to the bone risking public health, libraries closed removing essential services & community connections...

"This has been the most damaging and divisive Govt I've lived under."
Totally agree - and as someone who lived and worked under Thatcherism that's saying something!

@Graphista - sobering post and totally agree.

The people who say they are evil have no understanding of economics or geopolitical situations and yet on other threads come out as pro-eu.

Those that like to pretend how we are nearing maximum employment as fudging the numbers will 'whatabout' when it comes to 'not true labours' last 13 years as though the country resets itself after every election, same with the NHS being hamstrung with PFI (that can be 'whatabout' though as the Tories voted for it, but ignore labour also voted for Universal Credit being rolled out

Generally its tribalism shite, the people who call one side evil are not that informed and are generally regurgitating talking points they have gained from their echo chambers.

It's why brexit has become such a shit show because it's tore across political lines and how life long 'working class background' supporters are having to deal with the issue of not representing the working class anymore and instead passing them off as turkeys or just generally thick (not that thick though when they vote for labour in any GE)

Small point but the kids i was bullied by at school.....................now Tory voters. the school reunion was very illuminating.

This summarises what many pps have said about tory voters WRONGLY assuming their success is PURELY down to their own virtue and "hard work" (as if nmw workers don't work hard!)

https://digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

It doesn't have to be this way, there ARE wealthy people who care about the poorest and inequality but there are currently too many who don't

https://www.ted.com/talks/paulpifffdoesmoneyymakeyouu_mean/up-next#t-976609

shartGoblin I'm so sorry for all you and your father have been and are going through. Thanks for taking the time and emotional energy to post that.

Small point but the kids i was bullied by at school.....................now Tory voters. the school reunion was very illuminating.

Talk about scraping the barrel with anecdotal data, I will add one of mine.

I have a couple of friends who are 'proud' working class background lifelong supporters who campaigned against affordable housing being built in their neighborhood because it would impact on the house prices and ruin the local schools.

Justanother

"Evil" ? indifferent perhaps even when presented with the facts... is that evil?
The homeless dying in record numbers is a classic example of how the Cons just do not care.

Nothing is perfect including govt's but its where you start from and cons view the poor and disabled as the lowest of the low.

Hence Remploy factories were shut down under a tory govt and replaced with... nothing at all.
Same with youth & day centres... closed and the poor left to their own devices.

Because they hate the poor and vulnerable and have made life a misery for millions. Also it's an old boys club with a few females thrown in too.

This summarises what many pps have said about tory voters WRONGLY assuming their success is PURELY down to their own virtue and "hard work" (as if nmw workers don't work hard!)

Has any Tory supporter said it is purely down to their own virtue, does this cross into the realms of Labour front benchers being anti private school whilst sending their children to said private schools.

It doesn't have to be this way, there ARE wealthy people who care about the poorest and inequality but there are currently too many who don't

It's the middle class who are voting center right economically, until the middle class accept where they are instead of pretending they are punching up in one fist and wondering why the working class are 'thick' with voting for brexit is where we are, the past couple of decades have been the same policies but with a different tie, its not just the politicians its the people who would never vote tory and would be happy to pay more tax until corbyn targets 80K a year as a new tax intake which is the problem.