To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

@Miaowing "workshy and feckless." OK then. And what about those people who DO work but their wages aren't enough to live on? Somebody has to do those jobs.

We need to remember that a lot of people doing important jobs simply aren't paid a proper living wage. If you need care in your old age then the people caring for you will probably be on UC top ups because their pay is so shit.

ShartGoblin

Miaowing how much do you pay your cleaner and/or childminder

Enough so they dont have to claim UC or tax credits?

The tory party say the right things but do the opposite.

So, today is Patel is banging on about her support for the Police, whilst forgetting they cut their numbers and screwed their pensions.

They say they support our armed services but have cut mental health services for ex servicemen and women.

They say they will fund the NHS but make sure nurses and other healthcare graduates leave Uni owing 50k to earn 24k.

The changes to disability benefits have led to people dying early and have caused great worry, even suicide.

then there is the 800 homeless people who have died, some nr Parliament!

I just don't know how any normal person can even consider voting tory, it just should not be a choice anyone should consider.

If you are very wealthy, then sure, they work for you.

I do know that the Tory party is more aligned to my personal views than the Labour party.

Particularly now that the Labour party has moved to the extreme left.
Most current Labour policies wouldn't be out of line in the rest of Europe or Scandinavia. In fact the Tories and Labour under Blair have moved significantly to the right - accelerating a process started by Thatcher when she smashed the post-war consensus.

Hmm not that I think Tories are evil but I will say majority of the people that vote Tory aren't very nice. They have managed to turn classes against each other and its shown on this thread. Work shy/feckless/lazy people genuinely believe that all people on benefits are like this. Then like a PP mentioned about the separate playgrounds, anyone who can get behind that has to be an arsehole, setting the divide before they are even at school. The woman who sadly died a few years ago because her benefits were stopped whilst she was in hospital, found freezing on her sofa. The police cuts seem to be mainly in the worst areas making them even more crime riddled, but hey ho who gives a shit as long as they are ok.

I just don't know how any normal person can even consider voting tory That's how I feel, I just don't see the point of them at all - there's no long-term plan, no vision for the country just lies and bungling along.

Even for people that 'just want Brexit done' - it seems so obvious that Tories know they're talking crap about that as well as everything else and yet people are swallowing it - just baffles me.

I'm going to ignore the last century and focus on Boris Johnson's 'Conservative' Party, as that's the relevant one at the moment.

It isn't really about conservativism anymore, it's about nationalism - just ask Kenneth Clarke who, until last month, was a conservative MP for almost half a century and served in the cabinets of both Thatcher and Major - he called this iteration of the party unrecognisable, and the 'Brexit Party rebadged'.

It is my view that Brexit, particularly a no deal one, is mainly a means for certain wealthy people to avoid paying taxes, staggeringly with a wave of working class support behind it, driven by certain, powerful media companies. I believe Brexit will cause a downturn in living conditions for the working and middle classes for at least a generation. I think that's an evil in itself but, of course, that's not a universal opinion so let's put a pin in that.

I will take a quick detour though to consider Boris' voting record on Brexit though, just to flag that he, and his ERG mates, blocked Theresa May's withdrawal agreement (which was a hard brexit) on multiple occasions. It staggers me that he is making hay out of MP's alleged opposition to Brexit when he has been one of its biggest obstacles. His manipulation of the more ill-informed leave voters at present is staggering and worrying to watch.

But what I really want to focus on, as why I believe the current iteration of the Conservative Party is 'evil', is it's utter contempt for the core principles of this country, in particular, Parliamentary Sovereignty and the Rule of Law.

We all know that Boris shut down Parliament unlawfully, and in opposition to perhaps the core concept of our constitution.

He has repeatedly indicated a willingness to break the law, namely the Benn Act, and might yet do so.

And a small point that I found particularly egregious, but has been skirted over in our rapid-moving news cycle, is how he deliberately prevented hundreds of MP's votes from being counted when MPs voted on the Kinnock amendment to the Benn Act (in the mistaken belief that it would prevent a majority from supporting the Act).

Is this where we are going to be when Brexit is done and dusted? Are we going to have future Conservative or Labour PMs shutting down Parliament when our democracy as inconvenient for them? Are they going to refuse to count the votes of MPs if they don't agree with them? Are Prime Ministers going to break the law (and publicly announce their intention to do so)?

Are 37% (or whatever it is) of the country going to whoop and cheer as we sink deeper into Banana Republic territory?

I voted Remain but can live with Brexit (my financial position is comfortable). What I cannot live with is the disintegration of our constitution, democracy and morality as a nation.

That's where the 'Conservative' Party are taking us right now, mainly for the sake of Boris' career and certain politicians bank accounts, and it's vile.

this image sums it up for me really

I will take a quick detour though to consider Boris' voting record on Brexit though, just to flag that he, and his ERG mates, blocked Theresa May's withdrawal agreement (which was a hard brexit) on multiple occasions.
On a point of order they didn't (and couldn't have done) act alone in this - the WA was defeated by a combination of opposition parties and the DUP, if only the ERG and Tory rebels had opposed it it would have been passed.

I'm in Scotland and looking forward to them being hopefully wiped out here at the next General election as this can only mean more gains for the SNP and strengthen independence. Its the only way out of not just the current political mess but of being ruled by Tories for the foreseeable future. Right from early memories the Tories have always despised the weak, the poor, disabled etc and Scotland generally.

Ideology of selfishness
Dog eat dog
Blaming the poor for their own struggles
Belief that everyone has an equal chance and the well paid are there on their own merits
Sneering
Lack of workers rights in the past
Treatment of people on benefits

On a point of order they didn't (and couldn't have done) act alone in this - the WA was defeated by a combination of opposition parties and the DUP, if only the ERG and Tory rebels had opposed it it would have been passed.
But if everyone who wanted Brexit (or at least were willing to support it), voted in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, it would have passed.

Even if it didn't pass at the first attempt, a closer vote the first time around (rather than a historically large loss) would likely have seen a growth in public and parliamentary support for the Withdrawal Agreement.

Of course Boris and the ERG weren't the only ones to block Brexit, but they are the ones who are now building a campaign on the concept of the 'People Vs Parliament', when they are as complicit as anyone.

@MaPaSpa

Thanks for posting that (hope it doesn't get pulled !).

Can I ask where you found it ? I was looking for ages online to have sight of it. Loads of people remember it (being in Brum I went to Smethwick) but it seems to have "disappeared" from the archives.

Nothings changed .

I'm socially conservative and middle class, but even I wouldn't vote for the tories as I'm just not that callous. This govt are the worst in living memory and I grew up under Thatcher.

It isn't really about conservatism anymore, it's about nationalism - just ask Kenneth Clarke who, until last month, was a conservative MP for almost half a century and served in the cabinets of both Thatcher and Major

^This... MPs who until recently would have been described as Thatcherite, have now been expelled from the party or resigned.

Labour will not be to everyone's taste, of course not but today's tory party is a right wing, racist and nationalistic party that would rather bring back the so called troubles to NI than change direction.

Its shocking.

I hope decent tory voters turn away from this party.

We are never going to resolve this on here - only at the ballot box. Labour has not won an election since 2005 and Corbyn is not helping - thankfully. only the Tory party can really look afetr the less well off in the UK by conserving money so we have enough to help the less well off rather than spend too much and render the country bankrupt.

However Labour is refusing to allow us an election so here we are trying to make the best of a complicated situation with 31 oct looming.

Mrs Thatcher transformed this country and was a massive force for good.

the WA was defeated by a combination of opposition parties and the DUP, if only the ERG and Tory rebels had opposed it it would have been passed.

Bizarre way of framing it! If ERG, 'rebels' and DUP - had supported it, it would have passed. So it was the Tories, and most vocally Johnson and those in his cabinet, who defeated May's WA.

Mrs Thatcher transformed this country and was a massive force for good.

There are two statements in there, and one is 100% correct.

@Xenia how many years do the less well off have to wait? Nine years of austerity and now we're looking down the barrel of a hard Brexit that's expected to take a financial toll for a generation.

If ERG, 'rebels' and DUP - had supported it, it would have passed. So it was the Tories, and most vocally Johnson and those in his cabinet, who defeated May's WA
No it wasn't - and the clue is in your post!!!
Are the DUP now Tories - whilst i don't like or suport any of 'em I think the DUP would be annoyed to be called Tories. Just let's get the facts straight here, as much as dislike them, the ERG alone didn't stop the WA.

only the Tory party can really look afetr the less well off in the UK by conserving money so we have enough to help the less well off rather than spend too much and render the country bankrupt.
What utter utter nonsense. The current Troy government is borrowing like fury to try and buy votes.

Xenia - Thatcher was far to the left of today's Tory party, who are akin to FN or AfD.

She did not suck up to the far right populists, she did not wish to leave the EU and her social reforms were minor compared to what the Cons have done with help from ATOS and Capita since 2010.

I don’t have a cleaner or kids.

Mrs Thatcher transformed this country and was a massive force for good.
She was an amoral person with zero humanity and no principles whatsoever who ruined a lot of good things about the UK.