To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

The only people that vote conservative are the extremely rich and the thick people. It’s true.

“the idea the last 3 tory pms share the same ideology is farcical ”
A core belief of the Conservative Party is individualism. Why is it farcical to suggest that the last 3 Tory PMs share that belief?

I don't fall out with a lot of their policies, and I believe a lot of the cuts were due to the monstrous debt. However, at the risk of bringing this down to a base discussion, David Cameron offered a referendum on an extremely important issue to a completely ill-informed electorate with no back up plan.... and here we are, 3 years later, no further on, with no actual governance happening because all parliamentary time is taken up with discussing how to implement something that is unimplementable.

This is true, they’re not outwardly being forced but how are people on lower incomes going to be in a position to save that money? Therefore, in a way they are forced to continue working.

@SerendipityJane - and yes Corbyn would be absolutely bloody atrocious. Many people feel politically homeless at the moment due to the shambolic nature of the Labour party.

Austerity
Universal Credit
PIP
The DWP generally
Rampant cronyism
Tax breaks for the rich, support slashed for the poor and vulnerable, the working poor reliant on benefits instead of the government insisting companies pay a living wage.
If you voted for that, yes, you are complicit.

The 'monstrous debt' was a result of bailing out the banks in 2008. You can't tell me the Conservatives (or any other parliamentary party) would have done anything differently. And the deregulation of the banks was not the fault of one government.

'Nasty' may not be a grown up or useful criticism at Mumsnet, but it was grown up and useful enough for Theresa May to use it about her party when addressing its party conference a few years ago.

It was also accurate.

That overcame my temptation to write 'Don't feed the troll'.

Their disability cuts have directly killed several of my friends.

'Nasty' may not be a grown up or useful criticism at Mumsnet, but it was grown up and useful enough for Theresa May to use it about her party when addressing its party conference a few years ago. also another bit of misinformation she never said the conservative party were a sty party she referred to the fact oponents accused them of being it

Yes, we've made progress, but let's not kid ourselves. There's a way to go before we can return to government. There's a lot we need to do in this party of ours. Our base is too narrow and so, occasionally, are our sympathies, You know what some people call us: the nasty party," Mrs May told a stunned conference

They have made the disability and working classes and generally less well off suffer to an extreme that food banks have become a part of everyday life. There are children worst off than I was. I really despair at the gap that keeps increasing. The alternative? Jeremy and his fruit loop army that will finish the country off and turn us into little Russia!

The ethos of the Tory party is individualism. This means that whatever life has thrown at you, you have to deal with individually with no help from the state. People talk about this sort of thing when they say things like, 'I've worked all my life for my house and now they're trying to take it away from me' when they need nursing care. However, we don't live in a bubble. We are social creatures and, particularly living on a very populated island, we need to work together. Tories will expect the roads to be mended and their bins to be collected, but won't think that perhaps people who are disabled may need some financial support. They don't have any collective responsibility for people that they don't know and that is what I would consider evil.

There is the assumption that because someone is struggling it must be their fault in some way without considering that life is complicated and our reactions to it even more so. They think they 'deserve' things and other people don't. "My elder care should be paid for by the state, but why can't people fund their own childcare." It's illogical and mean.

The alcoholic you refer to needed help and so did his partner (to leave him). Alcoholism is an illness. He probably needed more help than you were able to give, but perhaps if he had been given the help his partner would still be alive. Prison is far more expensive than benefits.

The slashing of public services is not about money as everybody knows that preventative services cost less than fixing things when they've gone wrong. The ideology is that people should look after themselves and their families and that's it. I blame the Tories for the following phrases I have heard here on mumsnet and elsewhere, which don't allow any nuance or difficulties in people's lives:

It's their own fault they're obese.
Parents should take responsibility. Schools shouldn't have to teach sex ed.
Why is he being paid more benefits than me?
She smokes and she's on benefits.
If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them.
I worked hard and that's why I am rich. (and cleaners don't work hard?)
I think all of these are insidious and are designed to cause rifts in society. There is no acknowledgement of privilege or circumstance at all.

Tories go on about the nanny state when actually they are the ones who are telling people what to do. You must live a conventional life. You mustn't have any problems that cause you to be ill (physical or mental), get into debt, have caring responsibilities... They go on about having 'choice' and what they mean is a postcode lottery where middle class people can fight what they want and working class people just accept the shit they're given because that's their place.

And finally, they create division and discord. We were all very pissed off about the bankers irresponsibility after the 2008 crash but the Tories turned it around so that we would hate the benefit scroungers and the layabouts, despite the fact that tax dodging costs the country far more and actually searching for and prosecuting people who are claiming an extra £2 a week on their benefits costs more than they recover.

This is probably a divisive comment, but you asked why.

Presumably because it’s people who think they’re entitled to have their needs met by the state (or rather the tax payer) who get irrationally pissed off when a political party expects them to support themselves.

See this is the argument that I find irritating. It’s been swallowed by so many people.

I do expect people to support themselves as much as possible, given a fair start. But Tory policies make it less and less likely that hardworking people can actually support themselves and their families. The eradication of workers’ rights, zero hour contracts, minimal control over private landlords, etc are examples of where Tory policy has meant normal, working families are unable to support themselves, while the ‘owners of capital’ are reaping all the rewards of their work. The govt are taking all the means of people to actually support themselves and then calling them benefit scrounges. When you’ve got nurses using food banks and claiming benefits, it’s just wrong.

People like the op don't really care if other people poorer than them die. And it isn't just the rich who vote for them. Lots of low income people voted for them especially the working poor and the jam as they bought into the benefit scrounger and deserving poor bullshit.

So many people who were just struggling didn't like people being able to survive and live on benefits ie people who were disabled or single parents.

They voted actively for universal credit whilst they were on tax credits. They were so short sighted that they didn't realise that the tories would come for them next, the working poor and the hard working but low income families.

Now all lumped together as societies undesirables by the tory party. Nobody advocating for them at government level. But they voted for that, just like with Brexit, people voting to make themselves poorer.

The tory party are for the rich and stupid as someone up thread said.

Ask Theresa May "We are known as the Nasty Party". Horse's mouth and all that.

Agree with so much on this thread. Some excellent points.
I'm always curious about that section of the working class who always vote tory. They presumably think it's an aspirational vote but I also wonder whether subconsciously they relish the prospect of the 'undeserving poor' being hit by the inevitable cuts to benefits.

What @JeffreyJefferson wrote.

I have a deep and enduring loathing of the Conservative Party.
I just hope that this Brexit catastrophe causes them to completely implode and then they can resurrect themselves as the Mean Fuckers Party and at least be upfront and not just disingenuous about who they really are.

Then at least people who would tick their box just for an almighty exercise in self sabotage c/o Brexit might never be quite so moronic as to shoot themselves in both feet again

I’m not religious but Lord,hear my prayer

They have allowed the flourishing of right wing rhetoric to run rampant.
They have shafted those less well off.

My Dad was a single parent raising me with mental health issues. It was a struggle but he did his best. He was on benefits but always wanted to work, he struggled with his mental health and his schedule caring for me to get a job so he decided to become self employed instead.

To begin with he decided to start studying part time while earning income support, he felt ashamed to be doing this so he decided to also start his own business. Under a labour government he was given tax credits, at the time there was no stigma attached so it made him feel like he wasn't scrounging, he was working hard. They also provided free courses so he could manage his own books and the business started to turn a profit. For the first time in his life things started to go well for him.

The financial crisis hit but it didn't affect him too badly at first, he still had paying customers (mostly retired) and things were still going well with his studies.

Austerity hit and his customers started dropping off, they were worried about what could happen. To combat this he froze his prices, they have been frozen for 10 years now because people won't pay more.

Policy changed so that he could no longer claim while studying, he had to give up his degree when he was 1 year off finishing it. It would have turned his life around but he was told he was a scrounger and needed to get a proper job instead.

He made the best of it and put more hours into his work but the hours he could get varied depending on the season and his customers. Then policy changed so he had to do a minimum of 32 hours a week up from 16 (he usually clocked about 28-30 bearing in mind he travels between hourly jobs).

This caused him lots of stress and worry with his mental health. Fortunately he had a really good doctor who finally diagnosed him with complex PTSD and he began to get treatment and actually started to get better (well, find ways to cope).

Policy changed and funding to mental health services were cut, the doctor no longer offered treatment.He tried his best though, he increased the number of hours he did per week, slashed prices to pick up extra customers and got by.

Whilst this was going on he was living in a house with black mould and was sick all the time. The landlord said it was because the windows weren't open and it was his own fault so he wasn't helping. The house did not have central heating or a working boiler so he could not keep the windows open through winter. He thought about taking legal action because surely he had rights?

Policy changed to slash funding to legal aid, he couldn't afford legal help so tried to make the best of it, he got sicker but kept working harder because he's a hard worker, always has been.

Policy changed to require more evidence to claim tax credits. Ok, he thought, more paperwork but he could do it. Then they called him to inform him that the change was retroactive. He had to provide the new evidence for the previous tax year or he could be accused of fraud. He couldn't provide the evidence. He had to pay back every penny that he claimed.

He lost his home, it wasn't a good home but the only other option was to move back in with the parents who's abuse and manipulation had caused his PTSD in the first place.

Brexit came along and he lost half his customers as they were too concerned about the economy to keep paying for his services. He worked harder and for less, unable to sleep out of fear of his abusive, alcoholic father.

This year he had a heart attack. He couldn't work. He tried to claim universal credits, to their credit the people he dealt with were lovely but they couldn't help him. A heart attack and a doctor declaring him unfit for work wasn't enough. He had to do a work capability assessment. He was fit for work apparently.

My grandfather attacked him for being a scrounger, for daring to claim benefits 2 weeks after a heart attack. He was hospitalised, homeless and scared. He came to live with me, there isn't room and we can't afford it but I am never letting that man near him again. A lot of this I didn't know beforehand, he doesn't like to burden people you see.

He decided he would try to find work, he begged for the jobcentre's help, said he'd do anything, just give him a chance, he's a hard worker. They couldn't help, just threatened him with letter after letter, phone call after phone call. The doctor told him to do a couple of hours of light work each week but no more. He asked at the job centre if this would be ok to help his recovery. They said it wouldn't be a problem. It was. He was accused of fraud again and all benefits were stopped. He collapsed through stress and ended up in hospital again.

He doesn't claim anything any more, he applies for every single job in the county. He's doing everything he can. Meanwhile more clients are dropping him because his work is manual. They are worried about him, they don't want to cause another heart attack they say. Their concern does not help.

Last week he needed a prescription, he needs it for his heart or he could die. He walked to every pharmacy in the city to try to get it. None in stock. Funding cuts.

I've watched him cry so many times and I don't know what to do any more. It's costing all I have to keep us going and I'm scared. Any day he could have a heart attack or do something worse out of desperation.

He keeps saying "They should have just let me die".

I'm neither extremely rich nor thick..... and I vote Tory

I earn 120K through my own business and my DH 60K, we're comfortable but not extremely rich. Our house is mortgaged.

Personally, I'd like to keep the standard of living I have and not have it decimated to support the workshy and feckless.

I agree 'evil' is too strong (although there are some individuals).

For me it's the damned arrogance of them. In the face of overwhelming evidence they blindly pursue a policy which is clearly wrong/chaotic/damaging/won't achieve what it should. They are told and better told by experts in the field that the policy they are polishing will have dire consequences but oh no, they know better. They are arrogant and believe they have the right to rule.

Examples of this are -

Childcare reforms, nursery owner after nursery owner told them the reforms wouldn't work (including in a live chat on here) but the Minister at the time blithely ploughed on and arrogantly dismissed all concerns, she new better because it was a Tory policy and she and it were therefore infallible. I think it was Theresa Villiers or maybe Esther McVeigh but I could be wrong about that.

Justice reforms under Grayling. The entire legal profession from judges down told him it just wasn't feasible. Again he knew better and now look at the mess it's in.

Actually Grayling has a catalogue of these where arrogance and hubris has won out.

Don't get me started on Brexit

Many politicians on all sides do this but the Tories seem to take arrogance to a new level

I think the traditional working class core comes from the time of noblesse oblige One Nation Toryism, before the Welfare State. When the Tories were the landowners/landlords and the best of them had a sense of obligation to the poor. A sort of Downton Abbey thing- Lord Whatshisname felt a duty to look after his staff. You can still see traces of that mindset in old Tories today. People like Hesletine for example.

Ultimately, the Conservative Party’s belief is in capitalism: a market force that helps businesses, provides jobs, and offers choice to consumers.

What once worked as an ideology is now so screwed by business owners paying themselves far over the odds compared to their employees and squeezing every last penny out for shareholders, and thus developing more and more political heft to ensure their slice of cake grows bigger and bigger, while everyone else is left to share what remains (and blame each other that their slices aren’t bigger). In previous eras, those ultra-rich would often put large chunks of their money into public parks, schools and hospitals; now, we don’t have the same socio-religious pressures to care for the worst off, so their money instead goes on international holidays and shepherds huts in their third homes. But lots of poorer voters would like those lives, so they vote for them, not realising they’re only improving the lives of those millionaires, and damaging their own and their neighbours.

Add to that the fact that capitalism and over-consumption of resources is destroying the planet, and yeah, I’d say the last few decades of Toryism has been pretty bad for society.

@miaowing
That’s great you feel comfortable with your earnings.
Playing devils advocate, rather than saying you’d rather not support workshy, how come you’re not saying you’d rather see big corporations pay the same amount of tax you have to pay. Our country looses far more money through tax evasion (by the richest) than it does supporting the poorest (of which a minority are workshy). No argument intended but food for thought?

Universal credit
Austerity
Underfunding adult social care
Underfunding councils
Slow and steady privatisation of the NHS
The EU referendum
Refusal to address corporate tax avoidance
Refusal to address individual tax avoidance - particularly for the wealthy elite that make up most of the party
Spending millions on consultants for Brexit
Permitting McKinsey to ru the NHS
Sale of arms to Saudi Arabia