To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

bluealgaee have you never heard of things like divorce, redundancy, accidents that leave you unable to work?

"Don't have children if you can't afford them" is the most ridiculous argument out there. I didn't choose to get divorced, but guess what, circumstances change. Let's hope it never happens to you if that's your attitude.

Why I hate the Tories.

Pull up a chair. This might take a while

Benefit Sactions....For the cruelest of reasons. One bloke got one after being at the hospital with his partner who had lost their baby.
Benefit sanctions are imposed with out giving the person a chance to first argue their case. I thought it was innocent until proven guilty. Sanctions cause untold misery hunger terror and desperation, which could lead to crime, After all at least Criminals get 3 square meals a day!!!!!!
It’s all very well people piping up saying Go to a food bank. However you can only use them 3 times. A small bag of food much use to someone with a 3 month sanction, is it,
That’s not being ungrateful. That’s a fact,
Tuition fees. Yet those toffs got their Education for free.
Cuts to School budgets. Yet their own little poppers are mollycoddled in Private Schools.
Cuts to NHS. After promising to ring fence it.
Universal Credit and The waiting time.
The suicides and Deaths caused by their beloved benefit Sanctions. Included an ex solider who fought for this Country
He was found dead surrounded by job applications and letters. He had been sanctioned for 1 month I think. He was Diabetic and found by his sister. The coroner confirmed he had no food in his stomach. Can any Tory lovers tell me why that is okay, and I give a holy hoot that he missed a sweaty appointment. No one deserves that!!!!!!!!!!!. The Decision maker who authorise that sanctions has blood on their hands as far as I’m concerned
Talks of putting the retirement age up to 75. Are they thick as well as cruel. With some jobs. How is that even possible with physically demanding jobs.
Also you’ll have 70 odd year olds in the dole queue. Being bullied and threatened with Sanctions. Basically they want people to work until they collapse and die. Not only that but there’s enough young ones looking for work. They can’t have it both ways.
Tax breaks for their Rich mates.
Hounding Single parents. Yet the absent parent gets a walk over.
Zero hours Contracts being compulsory, You can’t live like that even David Cameron admitted himself that he couldn’t live on a ZHC.

It sounds like one thing we can agree on, orat least Graphista and I can, from opposite ends of the political spectrum is to vote.

I started by taking each of teh 5 children down with me when I voted when they were quite small so they could see the process and understand it. Then when they were put on the form at home at 16 ready for 18 explained to them what that was. Then discussed with them where they wante dto vote at uinversity (for us a postal vote for them tends to work best in terms fo not missing out wherever they are), then when they move out and on politely asking if they voted or reminding them of the date when they are busy young people. Discussing the issues. We used to have the radio 4 Today programme on in the car on the way to school for example until they learned to drive at 17 when I am sure other channel went on..,... similarly to my father having us read The Times leader columns out to him in the car on our way to schol to age 18.

The Conservatives have th ebest and arguably most caring policies for the country. Labour often cannot run things very well whch means the less fortunate are not looked after and money runs out. The UK seems to agree as Labour has not won an election since 2005 but let us see if they can win power next time.

I started by taking each of teh 5 children down with me when I voted when they were quite small so they could see the process and understand it. Then when they were put on the form at home at 16 ready for 18 explained to them what that was.

Maybe we need:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Training_Wheels_for_Citizenship

Another common myth.

That must be why the Tories are in their 10th year in power and Labour is languishing a dozen points behind and even losing to the Lib Dems in the latest polling!
borrows more

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away... actually it is a loaded question its not as if you didnt know the arguments against the torys

@Xenia

I'm on the other side of the political spectrum but have noticed your posts in a couple of threads and appreciate that you post without hyperbole, tribalism or whataboutery.

I've rattled off a few posts in this thread about my concerns with Boris Johnson's conservative party - concerns that are particular to this government and not the Party generally. I'd be genuinely grateful to hear some of your thoughts (and don't intend to turn this into a long back and forth).

1. Some commentators from across the spectrum have noted that conservatism as a political philosophy currently appears to be being stifled by nationalism. When the whip was removed from various Torries recently, Ken Clarke described the party as 'unrecognisable' and 'the Brexit Party rebadged', and that the current cabinet is the most right-wing the party has ever produced - is this something you agree with and to what extent does it concern you?

1. Regardless of how you voted in the referendum, how do you feel about the tactics Boris Johnson has used to try and force through Brexit? In particular, (1) the prorogation of Parliament, (2) deliberately 'forgetting' to appoint tellers to count the votes (that he didn't like) of MPs on the Kinnock Amendment to the Benn Act, and (3) indicating a willingness to break and/or circumvent the Benn Act.

Those kind of tactics concern me more than any actual policies of the major parties at the moment; I'm concerned that this and future governments might be more inclined to engage in undemocratic, unconstitutional, unlawful or illegal dirty tricks. Personally, I'd take a period of bad policies over, what I perceive to be, the rapid erosion of our shared values across the political spectrum.

1. To what extent do you believe Boris Johnson prioritises the national interest over self-interest, or vice-versa?

The Conservatives have th ebest and arguably most caring policies for the country.
I profoundly disagree.

and that the current cabinet is the most right-wing the party has ever produced - is this something you agree with and to what extent does it concern you? what javid yestaday announcing a 10 50 living wage is more right wing then when the tories were against a minimum wage?

Regardless of how you voted in the referendum, how do you feel about the tactics Boris Johnson has used to try and force through Brexit? In particular, (1) the prorogation of Parliament, (2) deliberately 'forgetting' to appoint tellers to count the votes (that he didn't like) of MPs on the Kinnock Amendment to the Benn Act, and (3) indicating a willingness to break and/or circumvent the Benn Act.
interesting perspective of keeping the referendum result and also the hoc triggering article 50.

i'm concerned that this and future governments might be more inclined to engage in undemocratic, unconstitutional, unlawful or illegal dirty tricks. no boris is trying to implement the democratic will of the people expressed in the 2017 referendum

The Conservatives have th ebest and arguably most caring policies for the country
Are you on glue? Please post the evidence then. I would love to see this I really would

The Conservatives have the best and arguably most caring policies for the Country

Are you taking the piss. If their policies are caring I dread to think what their cruel policies would be. Could you kindly enlighten us to these caring policies, please.

Because they've slashed school funding. Our kids educations are suffering.
Because they've slashed NHS funding. Our patient care is falling.
Because they've slashed all social care funding. The most vulnerable in the country are getting less and less support.
Because all around me children centres, libraries etc are closing due to lack of funding.
Because they treat people that are disabled like some sort of social parasites.

Priti Patel's speech. Oh my God it was like experiencing the burning fires of hell watching it.

David Cameron is like the ultimate liberal wet dream at the moment - I can barely believe I've said that.

Because they've slashed NHS funding. Our patient care is falling. lie nhs funding was 2018/19 was 129 billion no year has the money been more

@FelicityFlutterby

Neither Tory voters nor Tory MPs are themselves intrinsically bad. But I personally believe the party's ideology is misguided and potentially cruel

The Tories took a specific decision to underfund both adult social care and womens refuges - they had 5 billion spare BUT chose to cut corporation tax instead.

They know full well that this decision will lead to death and suffering but do not care... that is evil.

Because they've slashed NHS funding. Our patient care is falling

lie nhs funding was 2018/19 was 129 billion no year has the money been more

Well, its not a lie because it takes into no account inflation, which in healthcare is high or wages, esp min wage increases or most importantly demand and rises in the elderly population.

Come back @Ringdonna. Curious as to what you think make them good.

I hate them with a passion and hope karma gets them good. They are self serving bastards out of touch with anyone without money.

They’ve screwed us over as a nation and dim people who believe what newspapers tell them continue to vote for them.

@rosamundos that’s an interesting comment re: David Cameron.

Did anyone watch The Cameron Years? Thoughts?

I'm so sick of reading "don't have children you can't afford" usual posted by people for whom that hasn't been an issue, they've been able to have children without worrying about affording then or what others might think.

In addition to the usual caveat that peoples circumstances can and do change dramatically after choosing to have DC - divorce/separation, redundancy, illness/disability, bereavement...

The main reason an awful lot of working people would be deemed to be "having children they can't afford" is because they're not being paid reasonable, decent living wages! They're working for companies and organisations that COULD pay their employees decently and CHOOSE NOT TO. Not because they can't afford to buy out of sheer greed! Nobody NEEDS multiple £mn salaries PLUS bonuses to live on, I believe I'm right in saying the gap between the lowest and highest earners in companies is now wider than ever.

That is not right there is no justification for that whatsoever. People on nmw also work hard and make their employers money but they don't truly see the rewards of that work.

I fully expect to be accused of being a communist at this point and I'm not, but I DO think the massive imbalance needs to be addressed.

"whereas unclaimed benefits totalled £16 billion."
Exactly! I am aware of this figure but I would like to know how that AND the claims declined and not appealed translates to how many people not receiving benefits they ARE eligible for.

We had this happen to a degree in my family, both grans were really struggling financially at certain points but weren't telling anyone because they didn't want to "worry" us - both were not claiming/receiving what they should have been and in each case it took a crisis point until the issue was revealed. It was part lack of knowledge, but it was also most definitely part shame! Both these amazing women had worked all their lives - sometimes 3 jobs - served in WWII and had given much of their time voluntarily to their local communities and yet they felt ashamed of asking for help when they needed it. It made the family feel so sad, but also admittedly annoyed that they'd said nothing to us (we could and would have helped out immediately, and as soon as we knew we all rallied to get things sorted). One even said she saw claiming benefits as "begging" which just, ugh disgusts me that she was made to feel that way.

Inebriati - some are estimating that the numbers of deaths directly caused by issues with benefits/claiming benefits under this govt is now into the 100,000's the most dramatic cases make it into the news, but there are far too many that aren't - because it's now reached a level where it isn't "news"

"Basically they want people that aren't them to work until they collapse and die"

Being poor is also seen as a moral failing by those creating and implementing and voting for these policies.

Xenia and serendipityjane - yes I've discussed politics, social policy...life! With dd from a young age. At age appropriate levels of course. I started with advertising "what are adverts for dd?" "To make you spend your money with that company, to make you think you need things you don't" as it's something children are exposed to pretty early on unfortunately and I expanded from there and we watched certain tv shows and read newspapers and watched the news etc. As we are in Scotland I have definitively noticed (having been educated in England myself) the HUGE difference in that here even at a primary education level they're expected to understand nuance, bias, agenda, whether a source of information is reliable. Politics are very much part of life up here in a way they really aren't in England. I've noticed it even socially - it's regarded as a massive faux pas in England to even raise the subject of politics generally but here it's as normal as chatting about the weather.

At a high school level we have "modern studies" up here, a subject there really is to the best of my knowledge no equivalent of in England or Wales. I think there might be something a bit similar in Northern Ireland? Any northern Irish mners able to say?

It covers politics (from the basics up, how parliament and devolved govts are formed, how legislation is made, the history of our laws) and social issues (so I would say making the abstract politics relatable in how laws and policies affect ordinary people)

During Indyref I ended up in some quite intense discussions with non-scots about our youngsters (16+) being able to vote on it. Many felt that young people of that age wouldn't understand the issues or have the maturity to make a decision. But they really understood it all far more than many adults as many tv debates and reports into this showed.

Xenia - genuinely interested to know as are several pps what "caring" actions they've taken?

Whenever an op says ‘it’s not that I agree am just interested in viewpoints’ they mean ‘I do agree I just am pretending to be indifferent so I’m not slated and can slip my real intentions in through the gaps.

A bit like the current Tory policy of pretending to be one of the people while slowly screwing them over behind the scenes.

[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+much+eas+nhs+funding+2018/19&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safariNhs funding]

People describing a household income of £180k as merely "comfortable" has done me......that's over 3x the average income for most families where 2 parents work full time. And of course....they want to keep it all themselves and not give it to the "workshy and feckless"
Unbelievable

If you’re on benefits then of course you’ll hate them, for everyone else it’s all good xo