To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

The main reason the majority of people on benefits struggle is prioritisation of spending.
I assume you have some evidence?
Thought not.

if you are asking which Tory policies do people agree with - many. Eg the benefits cap has been hugely popular with Labour and Tory vovers alike.

Trying bring down out of control state spending is also popular with many voters.

The half of the country which wanted Brexit is presumably happy the Tories but not Labour are trying to achieve Brexit (I voted remain and both Labour and Tories are split on the issue).

Much else....

If the current situation is not bad enough, I feel that all parties have shown themselves to be self serving idiots. All the things that have been mentioned have been voted on by MPs on all sides and passed. Austerity was because of overspending and a lack of contingency. Why? Because our gold reserves were sold off to finance the "benefits" leaving no fall back for financial market instability. Bedroom tax was voted on. Etc. The pip and UC system needs managing and those contractors that are failing should be held to account. The contracts are not being managed when 75%+ of decisions are being overturned at appeals court. Many do not get that far because the system is not not mindful of the vulnerability of the people they are servicing.
The current situation has highlighted the process to millions that were previously unaware of it. I do not hate the parties or think they are evil. I am very disappointed that the elected representatives of the country are behaving like a bunch of stroppy teenagers. I don't think there is one party that is behaving well right now.

Think pp have summed it up. I also don't think it helps that the vast vast majority of Tory supporters are arseholes with about as many redeeming features as a radioactive genital wart.

Should also add I don't think much of labour or lib dems either tbf.

I am certainly glad Labour and Tory supporters are prepared to discuss things with each other on this thread. I don't believe Labour supporters are"a rseholes with about as many redeeming features as a radioactive genital wart" any more than we all know Tories are not. I doubt Labour will win the next election whenever that may be but I would encourage people to vote Conservative.

Whatever you do do vote - women fought hard to get the right to do so.

and the latest thing is the Toriew wants to get rid of inheritance tax.

Money for the boys

To my mind it's not so much that all Tories are evil, but that evil people are all Tories

To be fair, I would cheerfully catapult every current politician of every hue into the sun - they have revealed that they are all self-serving maggots whose focus is their own career rather than the 'good' of the nation.

labour/corbyn will not undo the changes that the the tories have implemented,
Hmm, it was all over the news yesterday that Labour plan to replace UC.

Miaowing how dare you be so bloody patronising. I neither drink nor smoke, but I struggle on the benefits I receive, and am frequently in the position of having to choose between heating or staying up and reading/watching television etc.

Trying bring down out of control state spending is also popular with many voters.
Another common myth.

Another common myth.

That must be why the Tories are in their 10th year in power and Labour is languishing a dozen points behind and even losing to the Lib Dems in the latest polling!

Graphista fire deaths have reduced consistently over the past 10 years (excepting the awful Grendel tragedy in 2017).

Yet you're taking your views from 2 firefighters that you know! Cause they have worked in all fire services in England and can comment about the response in all 45 services? That would be laughable if not so irritating. The anecdotes of two people are where you get your views from?

Yes that's really sensible and intelligent. My mate down the pub says that the NHS is fully funded and has more money than it can spend - I believe him as he works near the hospital.

One of the things the Tories have done which i do think is evil is to cut funding for women's refuges.
60% of victims who sought safety were turned away.

this well documented but they have chosen not to even address this in the Domestic Violence bill, instead placing the responsibility onto councils, with no extra funding....so it wont happen or we lose another public service.
If parliament hadn't been recalled, it wouldn't have even been discussed.
Two women are murdered by their partners each week.

How on earth can any one defend that, let alone female tory voters.

the Tories are in their 10th year in power

...i think that's stretching it.

www.healthandsafetyatwork.com/news-and-prosecution/fbu-horrified-stats-show-increase-fire-deaths-and-incidents

Annual fire deaths and incidents on the increase, Home Office stats show
14 February 2018
Elaine Knutt
Fire
346 people in England died in fires in the year to 30 September 2017, including Grenfell
Quarterly statistics from the Home Office for the year to 30 September 2017 show that fire-related fatalities in England rose by 93 compared to the previous year – representing the 71 fatalities at Grenfell Tower in June 2017 and an additional 22 deaths.

A total of 346 people in England died in fires for the period, including Grenfell, compared to 253 the previous year. That equates to a 9% increase if the Grenfell Tower deaths are excluded, or a 37% increase if they are included.

In the same period, there was also a 9% increase in the number of fires attended by fire and rescue services (FRSs) in England – totalling 170,519 – following an increase in the year to 30 September 2016.

The Fire Brigades Union (FBU) described both the rise in fires for the second year running and the rise in fatalities as “horrifying”.

Matt Wrack, general secretary of the FBU, said: “All we hear from government when they attempt justification of butchering the fire and rescue service is that ‘fires are down’ – this is now clearly no longer a claim they can make. They wrote off last year’s rise in fires as a ‘blip’ – what will they put it down to this year?”

"On the day of the publication of these figures, we again call for investment, not more cuts. We can’t make it any plainer."
Matt Wrack, general secretary of the FBU

The Home Office figures show that dwelling fires decreased by 2% in the year to 30 September 2017, with the overall increase driven by an higher numbers of outdoor fires (12%), road vehicle fires (4%) and other building fires (3%).

There was also a marked increase in arson: deliberate fires increased by 17%, from 71,346 in the year to 30 September 2016, to 83,475 in the most recent set of figures.

Meanwhile, accidental fires increased by 2%, to 87,044.

In total, there were 566,572 incidents attended by FRSs in the year ending 30 September 2017, covering fires, fire false alarms (222,997) and non-fire incidents (173,056). This was a 3% increase on the same period in 2015/16.

Fire false alarms “due to apparatus” accounted for 67% of fire false alarms in the period.

False alarms increased by less than 1%, but non-fire incidents increased by 2% - the Home Office said that this is linked to a rise in medical incidents attended.

The FBU pointed out that the increases have occurred against a backdrop of cuts to FRSs. According to tis figures, resources were cut by 30% between 2010- 2015, followed by 15% cut implemented between 2016-17 and 2019-20, according to the Local Government Settlement announcement earlier this week.

The FBU’s Wrack added: “On the day of the publication of these figures, we again call for investment, not more cuts. We can’t make it any plainer.

on earth can any one defend that, let alone female tory voters

They console themselves by 'othering' victims of domestic violence. They made poor choices etc, it could never happen to ME. Which I think is the main characteristic of the stereotypical tory voter; I'm alright Jack. If you are in dire straits it's because you've done something 'wrong'. I'm sitting pretty because I've done something 'right'.

Being a little less cynical though, the old "there's no magic money tree" argument for austerity will come into play here. It's a neat system, where there's always a good excuse for not helping people who need it. That's traditional conservatism.

Neither Tory voters nor Tory MPs are themselves intrinsically bad. But I personally believe the party's ideology is misguided and potentially cruel.

Quote fail sorry^^

Whatever you do do vote - women fought hard to get the right to do so.

At just over 100 years, it's nowhere near as well established as the laws regarding taxis needing to keep a bale of hay for the horse (1831-1976)

Just for context ...

"The contracts are not being managed when 75%+ of decisions are being overturned at appeals court" I do NOT believe for a second this is primarily due to mismanagement I think it's a deliberate decision to dissuade the most vulnerable from pursuing claims to money they ARE eligible for but which this govt doesn't want to pay out - and not to save money either because it's absolutely not doing that, this give, the likes of Johnson, Rees-mogg, Cameron, Osborne etc honestly believe being sick/disabled is a moral failing for the majority. It's sickening!

If they WANTED to be more compassionate and improve the system they would be.

Oh this is interesting - I've just tried to get stats on how many claimants who are denied benefits take it to appeal - there are plenty of hits on how many appeals are granted but I'd love to know how many of those turned down take it to appeal.

Because if you're very ill, very incapacitated you're not up to appealing! Meaning it really is the absolute most vulnerable affected by this ideology.

I've just recently completed my own pip claim, took about a month with assistance from TWO welfare advisors because it is a very complex set of circumstances. I'm now awaiting the decision and quite honestly I'm worried sick and I won't hear ANYTHING for a minimum of 6 weeks I've been told by dwp - indeed they've said they've quite a backlog at the moment and it IS likely to be longer.

There are certain conditions that the people suffering from them (or their parents claiming for them) that are more commonly declined than others (generally speaking) this to my mind is clearly discriminatory but this govt won't even acknowledge its an issue.

Xenia - we frequently disagree and clearly have opposing politics but this

"Whatever you do do vote - women fought hard to get the right to do so." I absolutely agree with!

My dd is excited to vote, she turned 18 in Feb and the next GE will be the first she's been able to vote in. She is addressing voter apathy/discomfort in her friends of similar age. I do wish youngsters were more politically engaged. I'm from a generation where we really were from quite a young age, we marched, protested, petitioned we WANTED our voices heard and it saddens me greatly that my daughters generation are so disengaged - but I don't place the blame entirely on them. Political parties should be doing more to engage with and attract them. And I do think embracing modern technology would help with this - it's crazy that in this day and age the only options for voting are still in person or by post. Surely there MUST be a way to allow some kind of online method? I find electoral stations are often still in the oddest places too.

"Yet you're taking your views from 2 firefighters that you know!" NO! Also from a number of reports by the fire brigades Union and articles by serving senior firefighters. My friends are merely confirming what is being reported from their own experience.

HelenaDove thank you so much for that post on fires

The main reason the majority of people on benefits struggle is prioritisation of spending.
I assume you have some evidence?
Thought not.

common sense tells me so you should not have children if you are not in a financially sound position but do you have any evidence to refute it

Let's sterilise the poor then. Sorted.

100% in agreement with Barbarians mum.

I do NOT believe for a second this is primarily due to mismanagement I think it's a deliberate decision to dissuade the most vulnerable from pursuing claims to money they ARE eligible for but which this govt doesn't want to pay out

From the still unanswered question (except a swerve from a poster because it's "hard" to collect tax) posed by the graphic I posted ....remember that money lost to benefit fraud is c. £1.2 billion, whereas unclaimed benefits totalled £16 billion.

so for all the frothing on here, the take home figure for non-idiots is that loss due to fraud is less than one tenth the amount people are entitled to but don't claim (for whatever reason).

Using benefit fraud to justify austerity reminds me of people who have 3 burgers, 2 large fries, 2 McFlurries, and are then surprised that despite the diet coke they don't lose weight. And there is a word for that kind of thinking. And it's not "reasoned".

*and the latest thing is the Toriew wants to get rid of inheritance tax.8
good why should you be taxed on death and that money has already been taxed when they earnt it and when they saved it (possibly) why should it be taxed for a third time because they die how is that fair.

Neither Tory voters nor Tory MPs are themselves intrinsically bad. they probably wouldn't support rounding up disabled people and gassing them, but a long drawn out death from starvation is absolutely fine.

metro.co.uk/2019/04/22/starving-man-deemed-fit-work-just-6st-dies-9283149/