To ask why you think the Tory party are nasty / evil?

[MellowBird85]

This is not a loaded question, I am genuinely interested to hear why some people are of this opinion. Fire away...

"Has any Tory supporter said it is purely down to their own virtue" actually yes!

Several regular posters who are ALWAYS pro tory no matter what they do or the arguments posited against them HAVE made comments like "I earned what I have" - including ones which are business owners and REFUSE to acknowledge that their income is at least partly thanks to their employees - oh no they did it all themselves! 🤔

"I lived my life the right way and didn't make decisions that would make me vulnerable" - no acknowledgment of the FACT that much of life is down to luck!

"the past couple of decades have been the same policies but with a different tie" I don't actually disagree with you there. There's a number of posters giving it "I've always voted labour but now I'm voting Tory" when actually they only voted labour 1997 onwards.

"I don’t think all Tories are evil. Some of them such as Rory Stewart, Amber Rudd and Justine Greening come across as very decent people" oh really?

Rory stewart is as true blue as they come, check his voting record rather than simply assessing him on his extremely clever leadership campaign

Particularly how he votes on welfare and housing matters

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24964/rorystewart/penrithhandtheeborder/votes

Justine is slightly less distasteful but still very much a Tory. Again check voting record.

And amber Rudd!?!

Who had to RESIGN for her part in the windrush debacle

Denied that rise in crime could POSSIBLY be anything to do with police cuts

She's made some appalling comments about food banks and the people that use them

Wanted employers to "declare" how many 'furriners' they employed

Refused to allow an inquiry into Orgreave.

Made dreadful derisory comments about her own constituents

Yea she's a real gem 🤔

Cameron has recently said he thought the cuts should've been even WORSE than he did, claimed DLA for his disabled son then made life much harder for other parents of disabled children, fudged answers in the run up to an election on which benefits would face cuts and deceived voters in very calculating fashion...

Just a few that came to mind:

Austerity - punishing especially the poor and disabled when it was they and their investment wanker friends that caused the financial crisis.
Tuition fees
Bedroom tax
Zero hours contracts
Rise in homelessness
Rise in poverty
Rise in racism
Rise of the Far right
The Windrush scandal
Foreigners feeling scared and unwelcome in this country
Rise in rents to ridiculous levels
Lack of affordable homes
London is pretty much unaffordable now thanks to a certain blond cretin
Brexshit Brexshit Brexshit
A seriously divided nation, full of hate.

Yes, they are evil.

They created policies that have killed poor and disabled people and/or voted for them with the power they have and you think anyone who does that is a decent person?

Disregarding the hyperbole, UC and benefit reform was a cross party solution, you swallowing populist black and white news does not make the Tories evil, labour/corbyn will not undo the changes that the the tories have implemented,

Yes, anyone who disagrees with Tories is just a moron who has 'swallowed populist . . . news', obviously too stupid to form their own judgement, and a Labour/Corbyn supporter (I'm not).

I don’t think Tory supporters can accuse others of populism. Populism is happening now thanks to brexit.

Austerity was an ideological choice by a party obsessed with dismantling the post war consensus and the welfare state.

Bloody Tories.

"Has any Tory supporter said it is purely down to their own virtue" actually yes!

Instead of going into full campaign mode and ignore my other points, maybe point out where in this thread someone has done so, maybe stop trying to muddy the waters of quoting others as though they are they are all the same.

I do notice how you ignore the question of you being in support of having an authoritarian government though

"Graphista - where's the evidence that fires are not being attended to?"

For starters I DID NOT say not being attended to so please don't misrepresent what I said.

I said that response times were slower which they are

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/972036/fire-service-cuts-more-people-dying-fire-stations-closed-firefighting-jobs/amp

Is just one link. I am more inclined to believe the FBU and my 2 friends who are firefighters who are frequently telling me it's becoming increasingly more difficult for fire services to do their job because of the cuts.

Response times are crucial potentially the difference between life or death for anyone caught in a fire (as I have been)

"Disregarding the hyperbole" what hyperbole are you referring to?

Their mistrust and consequent treatment of the chronically sick and disabled is awful. I understand the need to ensure benefits are correctly paid, but fail to see why info from a client's doctors wont suffice. Instead, we have the misery and anxiety of repeated assessments. I cant describe how terrified I feel in the run up to an assessment; its bloody horrendous. I know full well I am entitled, buy it is so hard to get the worry of your only income being taken away. The Toriescare the ones who ramped up these awful and often needless assessments and I will never forgive them.
I also loathe that they feel it's ok to avoid tax. Take David Cameron and his repeated lies about not having money in Panama. They feel they can take from society, feel entitled to rule but eont pay their dues. Utterly selfish greed and entitlement.
I could go on but I'll stop now, except to say I loathe everything about them. They care only for themselves instead of about all of us and in now way, shape or form, do I feel they represent me.

Imagine being in the corner that you have to link to the express as to why the tories are evil.

We really are scraping the barrel at this point

I would call them cruel.

OP, when you talk about choices, you're thinking about the choices that you would make, but you haven't lived their lives. We can't really know what another person's experience is and why they make the choices they do.

Alcoholism isn't something that anyone would choose, but happens because of a number of complex reasons which will be different in every person. I don't think that most people really understand how people can fall so low without having experienced it yourself and even then to quote the brilliant Jarvis Cocker "you'll never get it right, cos you can call your daddy to stop it all."

And I'm not being patronising as I can't experience it either. I'll always have the confidence of a stable family and an education, whatever happens in my life. There are things, such as knowing how to fill in a job application well, that I will always know how to do because my dad showed me when I was 17. It's rarely about choices in a simple way. Education, confidence and the inclination and means to take risks are massive factors. Look at Johnson. He's had such privilege that he feels that he can take risks with the entire country.

In my head though, it doesn't matter whether someone is mother Theresa or a lazy bastard, the cost of deciding that is too expensive and doesn't make sense economically, never mind logically. Prevention (sure start, good schools, youth programmes, etc) is much cheaper than mopping up afterwards (prisons, hospitals, etc.)

I suppose I also just think we're all humanly fallible and there but for the grace of God...

Because the party has an extremely long history of serving the upper classes. Whatever they say, that isn't going to change, and in any case that's the reason why most of their politicians joined them.

For all the prejudice against the Tories, only under Blair has labour ever (since the war) been elected for more than one term - if you exclude the two minority governments either side of wilson.

The tories get re- elected quite regularly.

So what you are basically saying is the majority of England (because we get the government England votes for) is evil?

Really?

It seems like nearly every Tory mp I look at on 'they work for you' votes for less rights for gay people, reducing benefits for those who need it most, vote against laws that promote equality and equal rights, pro nuclear weapons (I've been to Hiroshima and signed the no nuclear weapons for all petition!), against measures to prevent climate change.... to me these things are at minimum unkind if not evil. Not really sure why anyone does vote for them:s

My neighbour is a new Tory councillor. He's a 30/40-something single dad of two. They live in a shared ownership house, he keeps himself to himself but I do wonder how a guy like that ends up a Tory, as the party certainly aren't looking out for his demographic. I don't know him to speak to otherwise I'd ask!

Not really sure why anyone does vote for them:s

And that is why you lose

My best mate was a single mother living in HA accommodation - and she voted Tory.

As she said, when labour were in power, she’d never had as much disposable money as when she was a single mother on benefits.

She basically thought (and still does) think it was wrong she was better off then than when she was working.

The main reason the majority of people on benefits struggle is prioritisation of spending.

The minute her ex Dickhead husband left, she declared herself bankrupt - no debts to pay. From that point it was living within her means which was not difficult.

She still votes Tory now.

@Clavinova No id never heard of him before i typed the words Universal Credit into the Twitter search engine and recent tweets with those two words in are shown. So i just saw the UC tweets.

Those of you who are basically saying I am alright jack and I made all the right decisions well so did i. I worked hard at school, college, did loads of volunteer work because all I wanted to be was a paramedic and was first training as a nurse
BAM- age of 21 I had a seizure. That was ok said th doctor everyone is allowed one seizure
NEXT DAY- has another- told to surrender my driving licence
A WEEK LATER- was having up to 10 fits a day and was diagnosed with epilepsy.

A MONTH LATER- I was removed from my course due to health and safety
SIX WEEKS LATER- was dumped by my fiancé who could not cope
THREE YEARS LATER- having up to 20 fits a week, no one would employ me. I couldn’t take a bath on my own, I couldn’t go out on my own as had already ended up in A and E with concussion and a broken arm after having a seizure.

From there I slowly rebuilt my life as they finally found a medication that reduces the seizures however they have not gone completely and I can’t see myself ever being free of them completely.

My uncle who is a dick, always had a go at so called scroungers and said people with disabilities were the bane of the nation. He said everyone had a responbility to provide for themselves no matter what
His wife was in a car crash and ended up in a wheelchair paralysed from the neck down. She could not work, he had to give up work to look after her as he could not get enough support both care and financial. First time she went for ESA she was refused it they had to appeal.

In year they were bankrupt, house repossessed and they now live in a council house which does not meet her needs at all He has had a breakdown. It’s one bedroom and he has to sleep downstairs on the sofa as her equipment keeping her breathing at night keeps him awake.

They did get a lift put in but that takes up half of the living room. They have a small garden she can’t access
My point is life can change in a heartbeat. One day you or someone you love may need support from the state and you will have to go through the hell to get the things you need to be able to live and even when you do it will be the bare minimum.
One day it might be you looking at a pack of pills thinking if you swallowed them soon the hell would all be over.
I am all right Jack only means you are ok now but the next minute, hour, day, year, decade etc you may be the one begging for help that does not exist any more because this government took it away

Jeremy unt's trashing of the NHS and the way he kept his cabinet position to keep doing it through countless reshuffles. It will take a future government decades and millions to fix the damage unt has done.

Also Universal Credit.

Brexit on the other hand comes across as more of a giant fuck-up by everyone involved.

Miaowing I'm a single mother, and I've been both on benefits and in work, and I'm about £100 better off a week working than I was on benefits. This myth that people are better off on benefits is just that - a myth. Unless you actually have personal experience of it then you really don't know. There always seem to be people on MN who "know" someone who is better off on benefits than working and frankly I don't believe it at all, people justmake stuff up to benefit bash.

There's some centre right Tories who are reasonable people who I differ in opinion from but they are fundamentally decent people who want what they see is best for the county.

That's not the majority of the Conservative Party who think "I'm alright jack" and manage to somehow give tax breaks to the wealthy whilst making the vulnerable more vulnerable. If you're weak and vulnerable, or on a low wage, you get handouts, but if you're a big company who doesn't feel like paying a living wage and wants to avoid paying tax, you can manage your assets off short and have tax breaks (but of course that's not a hand out).

“So what you are basically saying is the majority of England (because we get the government England votes for) is evil?”

We have FPTP elections. This means that the majority of the country did not vote for the party elected.

@storm11111
Apologies if you’ve already posted this later in the thread. No one else who says they support the tories has responded to me.

Can you perhaps explain some of the policies that you agree with? I mean no confrontation by this but just wondered what other people’s reasons for supporting them are.