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Original poster

Driving without licence - WWYD

321 replies

Washingyourcurtains · 28/09/2019 20:32

I've recently found out my father in law has never had a driving licence. He's in his 60s and has owned and driven cars all his adult life, just never took his test. I'm shocked about this so would be interested to know what others think and if this is more widespread. Obviously it's a big secret so I can't discuss it with people in real life.

He drives my 2 young children around, sometimes long distances and on motorways as we live the other end of the country and sometimes meet half way to hand over the children and they go to theirs by themselves (which in itself is great for all of us). But I feel really uncomfortable about them being in his car now as he doesn't have insurance (presumably). It will cause a massive issue with my partner if I stop them from being driven by him as he will think I'm overreacting. But what if he has an accident and they are seriously injured and there is no insurance? Should I just overlook it? What would you do.

OP posts:
foreverroses · 29/09/2019 17:39

An experienced driver?

How do you know?!

He’s a criminal actually! What else does he ignore? Car seat rules? Seatbelt? Drunk driving? Speed limit?

bellinisurge · 29/09/2019 17:40

Admin error or arrogance. I'm with the latter.

HugoSpritz · 29/09/2019 17:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hardrainsgonnafall · 29/09/2019 17:54

HugoSpritz That’s what I think. That he got a speeding ticket and had to come clean because his asked someone (op’s H?) to break the law for him.

Why else would he tell after decades?

Aragog · 29/09/2019 17:59

No insurer has ever asked for evidence that I have a licence

We've just got insurance for two cars - one for Dd (with dh as named driver) and one for dh (and me as named driver.)

On both, with different companies, we had to enter our driving license numbers for the main driver. Certainly on the first we also had to enter the named driver license number too.

Regardless of this it is a condition of every policy I've ever had that you must hold a valid driving license suitable for the type of car you've insured.

Aragog · 29/09/2019 18:02

You can get insurance if you have a provisional licence

You can but unless he is following all the other rules about driving with a provisional then he remains uninsured.

DonKeyshot · 29/09/2019 18:55

If he doesn't have driving licence any insurance he may have purchased is invalid and he's committing two offences in driving without a licence and driving while uninsured.

If he should have an accident anyone in his vehicle, including your dc and himself, may suffer life changing injuries or worse for which they will be unable to seek compensation.

If he's driving on a provisional licence he needs a qualified driver in his vehicle at all times in order for his insurance to be valid.

I'd be having a word with the DVLA. If that doesn't produce results, I'd alert the police.

Needless to say, there's no way that I or any child of mine would travel in a vehicle that he's driving.

Thurmanmurman · 29/09/2019 19:37

I wouldn’t be concerned about his driving ability but the insurance is obviously a massive issue. I wouldn’t report him but would give him an ultimatum. Take the test or you will report him.

thebakerwithboobs · 29/09/2019 19:47

I really don't believe this is true (I think he's spinning a yarn) but if it were true I wouldn't let him drive the kids again, purely because he light one day he stopped. How would your kids feel to see him arrested? Or for the kids to see them take the car he's driving?

Lifecraft · 29/09/2019 19:49

Litecraft how do you know? Why’s your source of info? Happy to be educated

40 years in the motor industry on the legal side, including some senior roles which included working on the wording of motor insurance policies for a major UK insurer. Also, I worked as an independent consultant in Brussels on the 4th European Motor Insurance Directive over a period of 15 months .

Lifecraft · 29/09/2019 19:54

Does it really matter whether insurance companies still have to pay for third party wrecks and injuries?

Well yes, as the OP was worried that in the event of a big accident where her children were injured, they'd be left without compensation. In that context, it matters a lot.

foreverroses · 29/09/2019 19:57

Lifecraft why would she be worried? It hasn’t happened yet and she’ll no longer let her children in a car with him, surely?

Lifecraft · 29/09/2019 20:01

@Elieza I have always thought that’s how insurance companies copped out of paying for things, the small print. Why would they pay and lose profit when they could refuse and the motor insurance bureau would? You know how greedy insurance companies appear to be.

Who do you think funds the Motor Insurance bureau? The motor insurance companies. It's pointless them referring every claim to the MIB when they all end up paying for them anyway. Hence there is an "insurer involved" agreement. Written into the road traffic act. If there's an insurance in force, the insurance company pick up the third party claim.

BoomBoomsCousin · 29/09/2019 21:14

foreverroses the OP would have to say exactly why she might be worried, though I imagine the idea of an injured child and no money to pay for the costs of mitigating the injury would feature strongly in her thinking, but we know she was concerned because she said it right there in her post - “But what if he has an accident and they are seriously injured and there is no insurance? Should I just overlook it?”

Lots of poster went on to tell the OP that this was indeed a good reason for not letting her kids ride with him anymore. Lifecraft is pointing out that the logic doesn’t follow if insurance is indeed in place. The OP would need some other reason for deciding her children shouldn’t ride with him - a reason like she wants to put pressure on him to get his damn license like he ought to.

foreverroses · 29/09/2019 21:18

BoomBoomsCousin
Thanks. I would have thought him being a criminal with no regard to driving laws would be enough!

I won’t let my children drive with a family member because he speeds. Not 100 or anything but enough for him to be stopped and I don’t want my children in a speeding car or witnessing the police stopping him.

Passthecherrycoke · 29/09/2019 21:21

My great uncle (now dead) drove without a license for 50 years. It was his wife’s car, no insurance and he’d never taken lessons or a test. Some people just don’t take that sort of thing Seriously, sadly. I imagine it’s not uncommon

foreverroses · 29/09/2019 21:25

When they are caught, the court looks more kindly on them if they have taken and passed their test between being arrested and appearing in court.

Might as well do it now!

bellinisurge · 29/09/2019 21:28

@BoomBoomsCousin
Love the username- another Warshawski fan?

Tweetingmagpie · 29/09/2019 21:55

@foreverroses except you do not get sent to court for being caught driving without a license, I know several people who have been caught and have been fined and given points but you do not automatically get sent to court, not in reality anyway.

BoomBoomsCousin · 29/09/2019 23:06

Forevereroses If you wouldn't let your kids in a car with someone who has been ticketed for speeding, fair enough. But neither the OP nor the majority of posters mentioned much concern over that (and it's not, in the scheme of things a hugely significant traffic offense). The OP was concerned about the possible lack of insurance for her children should they end up hurt in an accident and most posters were up in arms about the same. So assuming the issue on insurance was irrelevant when it was the major objection raised in the OP and having a dig at another poster who was just setting the record straight given the huge amount of disinformation in the thread was a bit bizarre.

BoomBoomsCousin · 29/09/2019 23:07

Bellinisurge Yes! Also a big fan of bellinis.

familycourtq · 29/09/2019 23:09

I think this is much more widespread than we realise

foreverroses · 29/09/2019 23:19

Driving without a Licence will invalidate any insurance you may think you have. At Motoring Offence Solicitors’, we know that mistakes can happen, nevertheless being caught driving without a licence that is valid can have serious consequences that can greatly impact your life or your work.

Under section 87(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to drive a vehicle without a licence appropriate to a vehicle of that class. There are thousands of people in the UK who drive without a valid licence.

These include disqualified drivers, those who have never held a driving licence, those who do not hold the correct type of licence for the vehicle they are driving ie HGV, and provisional licence holders.

www.motoringoffencesolicitors.co.uk/road-traffic-and-driving-offences/insurance-driving-licence/driving-without-a-licence/

familycourtq · 30/09/2019 12:29

Just to point out that "insurance" in this context may not mean what the OP and others think it means.
Children being injured in an accident when the OP's FIL was driving wouldn't get an automatic payout, even if the insurance wasn't invalidated, just because a crash happened. That's not how it works.

twoshedsjackson · 30/09/2019 12:53

My late DF learned to drive in the army, and post war couldn't afford his own vehicle, but theoretically didn't need to take a test when finances improved. We used to tease him about the fact that he was also licensed for tanks and steam-rollers....... Being a sensible man, he took some refresher lessons, and a test; but very few of that generation are still driving if they are still alive.
For the sake of your other children, and others living closer to his neighbourhood, please report him anonymously.