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AIBU?

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Original poster

Driving without licence - WWYD

321 replies

Washingyourcurtains · 28/09/2019 20:32

I've recently found out my father in law has never had a driving licence. He's in his 60s and has owned and driven cars all his adult life, just never took his test. I'm shocked about this so would be interested to know what others think and if this is more widespread. Obviously it's a big secret so I can't discuss it with people in real life.

He drives my 2 young children around, sometimes long distances and on motorways as we live the other end of the country and sometimes meet half way to hand over the children and they go to theirs by themselves (which in itself is great for all of us). But I feel really uncomfortable about them being in his car now as he doesn't have insurance (presumably). It will cause a massive issue with my partner if I stop them from being driven by him as he will think I'm overreacting. But what if he has an accident and they are seriously injured and there is no insurance? Should I just overlook it? What would you do.

OP posts:
Lifecraft · 29/09/2019 09:27

@litecraft, re your post referred to by @Sn0tnose, I agree with sn0tnose.

I think you will find that if someone has lied to an insurer the insurer will have small print which tells you that the policy is then null and void.

More stuff

If any of that is wrong I’m happy to be corrected

You're wrong. If a car has an insurance policy on it, that insurance policy has to pick up any third party claim. End of story. The insurance company can refuse to pay for own damage if they've been misled. They can sue the driver for the amount they paid the third parties. But they have to pay the third parties.

That would include passengers in his car, and other people he hits.

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 29/09/2019 09:42

If he's any good at driving why doesn't he just take the test? Problem solved.

hannah1992 · 29/09/2019 09:54

I've worked for 2 insurance companies.

The first one I started in sales. This is how it went.

Bill smith
Address
Date of birth
Other relevant details
Is your licence a full or provisional?
What was the date you passed your driving test?
How many years have you been driving?
How many years NCB do you have?
Have you ever been convicted of any driving offence?

Bill could have said hed been driving 20 years with a full licence, has never been involved in an accident or made a claim and has never been convicted of any driving offence. Therefore bill is a squeaky clean driver.

Once the policy is set up it gets passed to customer service who then carried out the relevant checks. If anything is in doubt or proved to be a lie then the policy is shut down.

Insurance companies should ask for proof of licence as this is how they check whether you have any points etc on your licence that you havent disclosed and also to make sure you actually have one.

I'm not saying that all insurance companies do this but they should do. However, if you have come from another insurer the proof of NCB if applicable will be enough to confirm

ragged · 29/09/2019 09:55

"he paid the fine and got away with it somehow"

Something is wrong, you can't do that without sending the license off so they can add the points to it.

This thread has been entertaining so I hope it's real. Hope OP comes back with an update to explain the discrepancies.

Blueoasis · 29/09/2019 09:57

@JudgeRindersMinder

Thought that would be the case. You would think someone would be checking them though. Guess this proves they should be, I doubt this man is the only one doing this.

BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 29/09/2019 09:58

. I can assure you that when you apply for car insurance they ALWAYS ask if you have a full or provisional UK licence and if it is full how long have you held it for.

That’s true but neither I nor DH have ever had to PROVE we have licences or give the numbers for insurance.

The only time I ever shown anyone my licence was for DBS checks and recently when I was collecting a wine delivery from a local collection point and I was asked for ID. Usually my credit card which matches the name is acceptable but this time they wanted photo ID but I don’t carry my passport and my driving licence is a paper one... they tried telling me it was illegal, which it isn’t as it is valid, shows my current name and my current address she did say she had to call the police but the manager came over and told her she being stupid and gave me my wine....

Elieza · 29/09/2019 10:11

@litecraft how do you know? Why’s your source of info? Happy to be educated Smile

I have always thought that’s how insurance companies copped out of paying for things, the small print. I can’t see how some company insuring a licenced driver would pay out for damages caused costing millions say for a death he caused when they found out he is not licensed at all and also probably that he’s the main driver of the vehicle rather than a named driver on his wife’s policy or somesuch.

Why would they pay and lose profit when they could refuse and the motor insurance bureau would? You know how greedy insurance companies appear to be.

Whattodoabout · 29/09/2019 10:20

When my Grandma took her test in the 50s she only had to prove she could drive in a straight line and stop the car Grin. So really, many older drivers should retake the test and would almost definitely fail by today's standards.

I suspect someone else is insuring his car because uninsured cars get picked up fairly rapidly nowadays.

LakieLady · 29/09/2019 10:36

He got a speeding ticket recently which is why he told us (my partner didn't even know - he's been driving him around all his life). He thought he was going to get prosecuted but he paid the fine and got away with it somehow.

The only way I can see him getting away with this is if someone else agrees to say they were driving and accepts the points on their licence.

When I got caught by a speed camera, they sent me a notice of some sort because I was the registered keeper of the vehicle. I confirmed I accepted the fine and had to send the paper part of my licence back so they could add the points (they don't bother with this bit now, it's done electronically by DVLA).

If someone else has lied and said that they were the driver, both your FIL and they can end up going to prison for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. It's happened to a couple of MPs (Chris Huhne and Fiona Onasanya) in recent years and they both got prison sentences of several months.

I'd shop the fucker, tbh. I fully accepted I was in the wrong, despite my speeding being due to an intermittent fault with my speedo, which worked perfectly on the 3 occasions that I took it into the garage to be fixed.

Being allowed to drive a car is a privilege, not a right. He hasn't earned that privilege and the consequences in the event of a crash could be awful if he injured someone.

I'd keep it quiet though, it could well cause ructions inn the family if it got out!

Cuppie36 · 29/09/2019 10:38

I have gotten liability insurance without a license.

captainprincess · 29/09/2019 10:42

When you renew/start car insurance they ask what kind of licence you have and how long you have held it. They don't necessarily ask for the licence number. That's what the poster who works for the DVLA was saying.

LakieLady · 29/09/2019 10:50

What a load of tripe. So much rubbish on this thread. Are you saying if you're doing 31 in a 30, you have no insurance because you're driving illegally!!

It's invalid if you lie about your licence when taking out the policy, not because you were breaking the law when you crash.

Someone I knew lied about moving house, because they knew that their new postcode would put their insurance up massively. Their car was stolen, the lie came to light, and the insurance company refused to pay out and cancelled their policy. After that, their premiums went through the roof, because they had to disclose the cancelled policy when taking out insurance.

KindKoala · 29/09/2019 10:54

As PP’s have said, I’d assume there has been some crossed wires somewhere - surely he can’t have escaped detection for this long.

Dizzywizz · 29/09/2019 11:20

Sorry @janj2301, do you mean you drive without a licence, or am I misunderstanding?

janj2301 · 29/09/2019 11:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VanGoghsDog · 29/09/2019 11:37

@janj2301

I'd ask for that post to be removed, that's an imprisonable offence.

andyoldlabour · 29/09/2019 11:46

No insurer has ever asked me for my licence details and I have been driving for thirty five years.
The OP's FiL is very lucky that he hasn't been caught yet, because just one speed camera being tripped or the police stopping him, would have resulted in the book being thrown at him and rightly so.
He is one of the reasons why insurance premiums go up for the rest of us.

BentlyandPalmers · 29/09/2019 11:53

janj2301 Do you know that is a prisonable offence?

BentlyandPalmers · 29/09/2019 11:56

Former cabinet minister Chris Huhne and his ex-wife Vicky Pryce each received eight month prison sentences two years ago for perverting the course of justice after they lied about swapping speeding points.

Bourbonbiccy · 29/09/2019 12:03

Can't imagine people who think it's fine to not have a licence think that ensuring everyone is strapped in/has appropriate car seats is a must.

But surely OP had already determined all this was being done when initially allowing the child to travel with said uninsured driver. Before finding out the possibility of him having no licence. So from that perspective nothing has changed.

He's obviously in the wrong, but it hasn't changed to suddenly compromise the child's safety.

janj2301 · 29/09/2019 12:05

No, too late now

janj2301 · 29/09/2019 12:08

thanks, asked for my entry to be removed

LizB62A · 29/09/2019 12:09

@janj2301

Are you someone else who thinks the law doesn't apply to them?
Just like the OP's FIL....

ChicCroissant · 29/09/2019 12:15

As I said upthread people rarely break only one law, they tend to disregard quite a few. An excellent example provided by janj there, lying to the police, making false statements, committing a criminal offence which they justify to themselves.

janj2301 · 29/09/2019 12:23

VanGoghsDog

thank you for the advise, gratefully taken

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