Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

My god, if you only worked your actual directed hours, you’d be fucked on the first learning walk, because none of your lessons would be planned, and none of the books would be marked.

My god, if you only worked your actual directed hours, you’d be fucked on the first learning walk, because none of your lessons would be planned, and none of the books would be marked.

Exactly.

But Dorset says it can be done. So what's your problem?

Yes I agree with decomposing I worked out I get about £10 an hour take home.

That’s my point. Your pay is for just under 32 hours per week on average over 40 weeks term time. You are expected to work in addition to that to a) get the job done and b) I assume actually work the equivalent of normal, full time workers.

Anything over and above those hours can be done at a time and place of your choosing eg home, which is something many full time employees would like the flexibility do.

I’m not suggesting hours are unlimited but the idea that anything additional is seen as ‘unpaid overtime’ is a little distorted when trying to compare with the average full time employee in another sector.

Starting salary for NQT is £24,373 so not sure where the £23,500 pa comes from.

CuckooCuckooClock

I have never come across a teacher who says that their job is more stressful than child protection social work. Please feel free to point to the exact post Haud

Please feel free to point the exact to the exact thread in which I’ve stated this Cuckoo

Reading the general vibe and my almost 10 years on MN, the general vibe is that teachers are considered to be untouchable due to the stressfulness of their job and that no one can dare comment otherwise without being shot down or being advised they are being “goady”

You must be reading a different MN to me then

Dorset I was using his salary from last year when he was an NQT. Apologies, it was £23,750.

Even so, you are saying that a graduate job, with one year's post grad training, working 60 hours a week is deserving of £10/hour? He could earn that working in a supermarket with no responsibility.

No but then out of the several NQT that I know/have known not one of them has worked anywhere near a 60 hour week.

Neither does my Dsis who’s been a teacher for over 10 years, or one of my closest friends who’s been a teacher for c6 years, or the deputy head of our local primary who is also a good friend and next door neighbour (and according to them, none of the staff do either) so you can see how our view can be based depending on our experiences.

I cannot understand how they can possibly do the work that needs doing then.

When do they mark books? Phone parents? Plan lessons? Write reports? Mark exams? Make resources for lessons? Run detentions? Run holiday and after school revision?

How do they do any of that during a normal school day?

And yes, I too could give examples of teachers that I knew of who pulled into the car park 5 minutes before the bell rang and left 5 minutes after the end of day and who did no lesson prep or marking. They weren't good teachers though and the students in their classes didn't do well.

I don’t know any teacher who works 60 hour weeks, friends and family who I speak to do an additional 10-15 hours, and the latter is only around exam/children’s plays/sats etc...

If your child is working 60 plus hours then he needs to have a look at his own time management.

And please stop belittling supermarket workers they also have responsibilities.

On a side note, I qualified over 10 years ago and my starting salary was £17.5k and I was working in additions to 60 plus hours per week as my case load was triple the amount it should have been.

This isn’t something new, it’s ALWAYS been like this.

As with any job, and all jobs they are stressful in their own way to the individual doing the job.

Some cope better than others.

It's always nice to come back to a thread and still see people not in education still arguing the toss about a sector they don't work in.

Years ago I could have easily left the profession. It was terrible for my mental health. I changed schools instead because fortunately there's a couple of schools that look after staff and value staff. They rarely have vacancies other than when people move for promotion. I've actually walked away from promotion to stay somewhere supportive.
Of course I shouldn't say that because as it was pointed out up thread, staff talking about their experiences are nothing more than anecdotes to be dismissed (if they challenge what the non teachers are arguing), whilst also being some golden ticket that disproves the experiences of other staff if what they say can be made to suit the critics' narrative

I couldn't imagine having so little to do that I'd be quite so oddly invested in trying to still push some ridiculous argument day and after day about a profession that I'm not in. It's bordering on a weird obsession.

Decomposing. It’s clearly do-able as the school has been rated outstanding yet again, two teachers in the last year alone have won teacher of the year awards and its massively over subscribed.

The fact that you think that proves anything really goes to show you really dont know what you are talking about. But you havent let that stop you this far.

Lola. And that bothers you why exactly? It’s funny because people moan about HR all the time, guess what? I don’t take it personally nor do I feel the need to ‘defend’ myself because I know I do a great job and therefore I know it doesn’t apply to me or is about me in any way.

If it bothers you so much that people are posting on a forum (that funnily enough is for people to post on) why don’t you not read it....🤔

I have had a couple of careers including teaching which I have recently left. I honestly couldn't cope with the stress and workload. I have gone back to what many people would consider high stress long hours career and it's a doddle compared

You dont understand why being told about their profession by someone bot involved in it is frustrating?

Really?

Dorset
What I find quite sad is the sheer level of investment that those not in the sector seem to have in arguing they know more about the sector than those who do the job day in day out.

I don't work the hours some on this thread do. I have in the past and know people who do.
Not once has it crossed my mind to take the approach you (and others) have of trying to argue they moan over nothing, their job can't be that stressful, that because I have a great balance they must be inventing issues, that they mustn't be that good.

When I've had friends in different professions and they have shared issues, not once did it cross my mind to start a thread online about their profession with the intent of stirring shit.

When people in other sectors talk about the reality of their work, not once has it occured to me to start picking apart their experience as if I'm some expert who knows more about their job than they do.

Reason: because it would be a bizarre overinvestment in a sector that's not my own and only goady people and idiots would do that because it shows spectacular arrogance.

On this thread people have gone as far to make stuff up, try to get into disciplinary, tried to argue against workplace bullying and what unions advise, trawling through boards where teachers get advice, even at one point start claiming people mustn't like children or be good of their job.
It's really quite weird

never proves what?

No one is proving anything here, jobs are stressful, people are commenting on their experiences. Teaching is no more stressful, then a Social Worker or a Doctor or a Postman.

It’s purely down to the individual and how they manage their workload and stress levels.

I disagree you have to be immersed in a career to understand a career, you can work alongside other professionals and get a fairly detailed understanding of what their role entails and the difficulties that they may face.

I’ve spend weeks working alongside children in their environments, be that in their school, in the placement, or their family homes etc...

After 4 years I have a fairly good understanding of what teaching entails due to my own career, add to that my closest family and friends who are teachers also give me a good insight to their jobs.

Nope and it’s interesting that it only seems to be teachers who have this ‘frustration’ isn’t it?

I don’t know any profession that isn’t criticised by someone at some point. And for lots of professions it happens constantly. It’s not just teaching yet nobody else seems to take it so personally.

You are right, Lola. It’s the usual windup.

What I find quite sad is the sheer level of investment that those not in the sector seem to have in arguing they know more about the sector than those who do the job day in day out.

Not one person has said this, why can’t teachers also see that there is other stressful jobs with challenging workloads, and that being a teacher is just as stressful as the next job.

Some may find the job challenging others simply don’t, it’s again purely down to the individual.

Nope and it’s interesting that it only seems to be teachers who have this ‘frustration’ isn’t it?

Try being a —ex—social worker

I’ve seen lots of threads over the years that are 50/50 either way.

Why can’t people just agree that each job has it’s difficulties.

TEACHERS DO SAY THAT OTHER JOBS ARE STRESSFUL

TEACHERS DO SAY THAT OTHER JOBS ARE STRESSFUL

TEACHERS DO SAY THAT OTHER JOBS ARE STRESSFUL

All employees in whatever sector are able to vent about the stresses, the trials and tribulations of their workload.

This seems to be difficult for some on this thread to acknowledge and in their desire to pick away they obfuscate and shift questions.

Teachers - thank you. Some of you (generic you not specifically those on this thread) haven't been the best, but some of you have been outstanding - both in terms of academic teaching but also pastoral support.

(the same message can probably be given to 99.9% of other professions and were a thread to be created like this one (which appears to have only the raison d'être to goad teachers) about nurses, doctors, politicians I would happily post the same message as above.

Do you can account for every single teacher

If so then why was this thread even started by the OP, with her teacher friends minimising her nursing career.

I’ve personally seen this first hand on MN, multiple times over the years, with some varying frankly disgusting comments made at any OP who dates even mentioned their frustrations in any other role other than teaching.

The first few pages of this thread was the OP getting comments advising her she’s being goady etc... for her telling her EXPERIENCE!!!