Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

Apologies, my post wasn’t very clear. When I said ‘leave’ I didn’t mean leave the profession, just that particular school.

Post after post on here tells us about the many vacancies in teaching. Do you mean that those vacancies are only in poor performing or badly managed schools?

If you’re all working in such schools but can’t or won’t challenge the status quo by either taking action through raising a claim where it’s valid or by voting with your feet how does anything change?

These problems aren't only in poor performing schools. They are across the board and are caused, in part, by the chronic under funding of the education system.

Schools simply do not have the budget to employ experienced, well qualified staff and provide all of the other interventions that they are required to provide.

In the short term, an attractive option appears to be replace experienced but expensive staff with cheaper NQTs. But then you end up with no experience, and no senior staff left to mentor the junior staff.

It's very naive to think that the answer is to tell staff to whistle blow. Ive seen it done and I've seen the results. People lose their jobs and the regime remains unchanged. In this climate many people can't risk being made unemployed because they stood up for principles.

So, again, nothing changes? It all sounds very defeatist, everyone jumps on these boards to defend their right to moan and to tell us in detail about the awful workload, stress, impact on health and home life yet no options are ever considered workable. There’s always a reason why it won’t work.

I’m sure funding is part of the picture but that’s not changing overnight and even with increased funding it will take years to trickle through the system and for the full effects to be felt.

In the meantime...you have the same choices as any other employee and I certainly wouldn’t be sitting around waiting for funding to be prioritised if it was as bad as you say.

And yes, I fully understand the impact that has but what other alternatives do you have? 🤷🏼‍♀️

decomposing , that is an impossible PM target which he should challenge!

Piggywaspushed

He has challenged it to no effect. It's clearly a ploy to ensure that staff fail the performance management.

Dorsetdays

Would you honestly risk losing your job with no reference because you were on some sort of crusade to change a system which, by your own admission is broken and will take years to fix?

I've been part of a governing body where we tried to change it. Do you know what happened? The LA tried to make us remove the Head and we refused. So they removed the governing body and the head. They put in an IEB and then forced acadamisation.

Most of the staff have left and the results have plummeted. Explain to me how us doing precisely what you are calling for gas actually helped anyone or changed anything?

Teachers cannot change this. They will be picked off and made to leave their jobs. If the head is vindictive they will be given a basic reference but if any new head contacts the school they'll be told not to touch this teacher - I have witnessed this in other schools that I've had dealings with.

What needs to happen is that the public take action. People who can't be held over a barrel need to insist that schools are properly funded and our children receive the education that they deserve.

You act as though the only people suffering are the teachers but that simply isn't true. It's the children who are really suffering and decent teachers are staying to try and reduce the impact on the students.

There are many time that nurses take there work home with them, paperwork and doing mandatory training online. There's never any time to this when clinical. Additionally, it's very hard to switch off when you see people having the worse day of their lives. Nurses (and other emergency services) see things that no-one should ever have to see.

I think it's impossible to compare the stress and distress of this to teachers at times having to take work home as some pp have.

I dont think any teachers have said that they cant switch off whereas nurses can? No teacher has said 'we have it toughest'- that's what makes this thread so ridiculous .

Also please dont minimise- teachers dont 'sometimes' have to take work home. They have to do it most days. It isnt an occasional thing and by saying that all you do is show that you dont really understand the workload involved. That isnt a complaint or a whinge - its a statement of fact.

I have a family full of teachers, as with every job they have their stresses, it’s only on MN that you hear teachers saying it’s the most hardest job in the world, how dare you bash my profession... yadda yadda yadda

Every job is stressful to the individual, some cop better than other’s, irregardless of their choose career.

I also know many professions where people don’t last more 5 years (military, police, social work) and teaching wouldn’t be on my list, not in my large area anyway and I work with teachers and social workers most days.

It’s putely down to the individual, some handle their professional responsibilities better than others, again all jobs are stressful, there is no oneupmanship to another

I also hate when someone comes on here with genuine worries about their child educating to be told “well you do it then” “another teacher bashing” thread... apparently you cannot disagree with a teacher as they are the holy grain of MN, and how dare anyone raise concerns that in some instances the was wrong and being vile towards a child.

Several posters on first few pages stated they aren't able to switch of and have work on their minds.

Most occupations have to take work home on a regular basis.

I think it's impossible to compare the stress and distress of this to teachers at times having to take work home as some pp have.

This frustrated me so much and I'm not even a teacher.

I was a nurse though and yes, I had many sleepless nights thinking or worrying about specific patients but it was my inability to switch off rather than a mandatory part of the job.

Teachers don't take work home on occasion. They have to take the work home because it is the only way that they can do everything that needs to be done. When do you suggest they plan lessons, mark work or write reports if it isn't after school hours? If teachers are expected to work a 45 or 60 hour week then they should be paid for it. Otherwise their workload should be such that it fits into the 30 hour week that they are paid for. What is so outrageous about that?

Everyone deserves to be paid for the work they do.

But no teacher has said that isnt the case!!!! No one has said 'we have to do x and no one else does'. Why are people trying to put words into mouths? The only person that I can see that presented this case was a social worker who later apologised. Teachers on this thread have merely explained- and wasted their breath clearly- why it's quite a tricky job. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Most occupations have to take work home on a regular basis.

Absolutely agree with this, teachers aren’t the only ones who take work home.

I take work home every night, if I don’t I wouldn’t be prepared for my multiple meetings the next day, as 8/10 I am in back to back meetings.

Most occupations have to take work home on a regular basis.

If I was earning £70,000 plus in a job I would expect to work long hours for that pay. I wouldn't expect to have to work the same long hours for £23,500. That's the difference.

Everyone deserves to be paid for the work they do.

Excellent. Then we are in agreement. Pay teachers for the hours that they actually work and not for the hours that children are in school.

Yes but there a re a lot of stressful occupations where people don't earn 70K plus that do have to take work home.
There are people in equally if not more stressful occupations who earn less and also do a lot of unpaid hours.

That applies to everyone doesn't it and would be very difficult to achieve. I imagine some teachers work more hours at home than others, depending on the area.
Also, as in every profession, time management would need to me taken into account and is quite difficult to monitor.

Excellent. Then we are in agreement. Pay teachers for the hours that they actually work and not for the hours that children are in school

It’s a completely different issue, everyone wants to be paid for the work they do, however that does not mean a teachers job is more stressful that other professions.

As for switching off, I head up CORE meetings, Most nights I’m lying in bed unable to switch off due to the nature of my job, did we make the right decision, what will the outcome be of the child, will that child be harmed or be subjected to more abuse etc...

But teachers aren't talking about switching off.

They are responding to unfair criticism. I have never heard a teacher say that they have the most stressful job, work the longest hours etc.

What they are saying is that the job is underpaid, the pay doesn't reflect the number of hours worked and that the pressure of the workload plus targets is becoming too much.

It's fine for you to say just leave then but seriously who do you think would be prepared to work 50 hours a week for £23, 500? What standard of education do you think your children would get?

Those of you saying you have to work after hours etc how much do you earn? Tell us your hours Vs pay if you're saying it's comparable to teaching.

Straw men aplenty!
I have never come across a teacher who says that their job is more stressful than child protection social work. Please feel free to point to the exact post Haud

I think what people are responding to on here are all the teachers who say they don’t work the 50 hour weeks some of you do. And the teachers who say they don’t work through the holidays. And the teachers we know who definitely don’t work those hours. Why are your working conditions so different and why are you not trying to move into roles in those schools.

Teachers are paid an annual salary for directed time of 32.5 hrs per week for 40 weeks of the year. Pro-rata that up to equate to the pay of many people who work standard minimum hours of 39-40 per week for 47 weeks of the year (before overtime) and I think you can see why some would expect teachers to work ‘additional’ hours.

Teachers’ working hours are not specified in their contract. I’m surprised an expert in employment law doesn’t know that.

Dorsetdays

Firstly, there aren't many teachers on here who say they are only working their directed hours and no more. I would say the number of teachers who do this is tiny.

Secondly, the number of hours required is very subject dependent. Until the last year or two, when the curriculum changed, a PE teacher say would have only a tiny amount of written work to mark compared to an English or history teacher. Lots of schools use on line homework apps for maths, particularly in key stage 3 which also marks the homework. Again, in essay based subjects the work is marked by hand and so requires more man hours.

Thirdly what are you saying here?

Teachers are paid an annual salary for directed time of 32.5 hrs per week for 40 weeks of the year. Pro-rata that up to equate to the pay of many people who work standard minimum hours of 39-40 per week for 47 weeks of the year (before overtime) and I think you can see why some would expect teachers to work ‘additional’ hours.

Teachers are paid for 32.5 hours a week for 40 weeks. They actually work more hours than that so why would someone working 40 hours a week expect them to work additional hours?

There are no teachers working only directed hours. Anyone who claims they do is lying (I suspect no one has ever said this though).

Dorsetdays

Just done so very basic calculations.

My son, of working only his directed hours, would earn about £18.50/hour.

Based on the hours he actually works he gets paid £10/hour and that only includes the extra hours during term time, not during the holidays. If I add that in he will be earning less than £10/hour.

That's how much someone working in a supermarket earns.