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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Okay, about teachers...

999 replies

KitKat1985 · 28/09/2019 13:21

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

OP posts:
NeverGotMyPuppy · 30/09/2019 20:55

Honestly you need help. You really really do. Go for a walk or a run or something. The teacher bashing is really really dull.

BelindasGleeTeam · 30/09/2019 20:56

God are people still trying to reason with this berk?

You aren't going to win or convince them.

Smile and nod and walk away.

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 20:58

Piggy. It’s very common and not necessarily a long process. As long as you follow your procedures and document along the way.

In over 25 years of working in HR I’d say that terminating employment on other grounds has been the case far more than terminating on grounds of gross misconduct.

WaterSheep · 30/09/2019 21:07

Very little on here about them loving teaching, children or learning ....

Start a thread asking for the most amazing parts of the job and you'll get multiple responses along those lines.

LolaSmiles · 30/09/2019 21:07

You aren't going to win or convince them.
That much was evident early days.
Even now we've resorted to "oh people have pointed out how goady and ridiculous my points are repeatedly, so now I'll claim that there's very little that teachers post that shows they like children etc"

They're so, so obsessed with trying to prove some non-point it's quite odd.

NoTheresa · 30/09/2019 21:18

BelindasGleeTeam

God are people still trying to reason with this berk?

Sadly yes. It is pointless because people of that sort are merely here to disrupt. You cannot reason with such individuals because they do not have the powers of reason.

myrtleWilson · 30/09/2019 21:20

As I said earlier though - great thread for revealing the GF's Wink

NoTheresa · 30/09/2019 21:21

@silly248

It’s types of things not type of things.🙄

noblegiraffe · 30/09/2019 21:22

The can have a look at the type of things that lead to getting the sack, nothing performance related appears on that link

Those are misconduct hearings leading to teachers potentially being banned from teaching. That’s why they’re so serious. Performance related matters would be dealt with at a lower level.

NoTheresa · 30/09/2019 21:23

@silly248

It’s those who challenge when one is referring to people.

HTH

Piggywaspushed · 30/09/2019 21:24

I find that sad Dorset. I don't think this means teachers have it easy. Permanent contracts make things complicated, I guess, so other routes out are contrived because people do want to avoid disrupting timetables and classes. We have no HR , in common with lots of schools.

NoTheresa · 30/09/2019 21:25

@silly248

I’m not happy about your use of the comma splice, either. ( It is so tiresome to correct your many errors, incidentally...)

NoTheresa · 30/09/2019 21:26

Pfft. I give up.

Piggywaspushed · 30/09/2019 21:27

I think the fact that we are so quick to defend each other and the rigour of our jobs suggests an enormous collegiality, great team spirit, and a passion for education and a belief that things could be better if our voices were heard.

pinkstripeycat · 30/09/2019 21:28

Nurses are amazing and do a fantastic job

LolaSmiles · 30/09/2019 21:31

myrtleWilson
Quite.

I think what's perhaps most interesting is how oddly over invested some are in professions that aren't theirs and also how many people keep tabs on their friends and police their bad days at work so they can come online about it. If my friends have had some rough times at work, I've supported them through it, not come online to decide they must be making it up.

NoTheresa · 30/09/2019 21:34

Piggywaspushed

I think the fact that we are so quick to defend each other and the rigour of our jobs suggests an enormous collegiality, great team spirit, and a passion for education and a belief that things could be better if our voices were heard.

Hear hear. Or as some might say,”Here here.”

SmileEachDay · 30/09/2019 21:35

I’ve worked in two schools where a “management of change” process happened due to the “downsizing” of departments.

I was the NUT rep during one of them.

The entire process was done by the book, but was incredibly difficult and extremely hostile. What ended up happening was that several experienced, higher band teachers left before the end of the process - they were absolutely the teachers who were the “targets”. In every case they jumped because it was, in my opinion, deliberately made unpleasant. They got other jobs.

As union rep I had very little actual power - we were “consulted” at every stage, the SLT ensured they did everything legally, but essentially other than offer support to colleagues, there was very little we could do.

The restructure allowed the Head to pull leadership away from departments and into his SLT.

It was utterly shit.

Piggywaspushed · 30/09/2019 21:41

theresa Grin

Ohyesiam · 30/09/2019 22:04

@HavelockVetinari

45 hours wouldn’t even cover the hours he spends on site. He has a meeting 4 mornings a week at 7.30, and the teachers car park is never empty when he leaves at 5.30, 6. So I don’t see that this is unusual.

While I agree that he can be quite inefficient late in the evening when he’s really tired, he’s not struggling with it, except in terms of huge workload and a broken system.

He has a pastoral role which involves hours on the phone to parents ( among many other things) and he teaches a core subject,

Really interesting to hear that one of the unions puts the workload at 45 hours a week. Do you know which union it was?

Atropa · 01/10/2019 05:27

5am and I am up to plan lessons while also mumsnetting.

Anyway, on the sacking of teachers: it really is fairly easy, as is breaking a teacher to the point of them quitting.

I refer you to the points many pages ago where we pointed out that the job is never done, no matter how much work we put in. There is always something that won't be done.

So, say you are a manager and want one of your team out.

The easiest way is to give them an impossible timetable (at secondary level, this could be requiring someone to teachacross a multitude of rooms, preferably at opposite ends of the school, then berate them for not being prepared at the start of lessons, ready to greet the students or for books going lost from a room they taught in the lesson before.

Or giving them 15+ classes in a core subject and then remarking that, 4 weeks in (when formal observations usually start), they do not know the details of all students - names of 450+ students, their needs, who is classed as Pupil Premium, EAL, Looked After, Young Carer, who needs which colour sheets etc. Easy one to fail an observation on.

Or giving a teacher mainly bottom sets to teach, which usually come with a reluctance to work and poor behaviour by students, then failing them on poor behaviour management or lack of progress of a few students who may only turn up every 3-4 lessons. Alternatively, observing them deliberately with a set known across the school to be poorly behaved.

Or requiring them to teach in an area they are not qualified in - say, giving a Chemistry teacher half a timetable of History, or asking a PE teacher to teach English Literature.

Or doing spot-checks of books frequently, knowing that the marking policy is almost impossible to adhere to consistently across every class. Maybe pick up on the fact that little Johnny, who never even brings a pen to school, has failed to underline the headings in his book. That, after changing sets 3 times, Penny does not have the same colour book/ tracking/ amount of stickers as Laura, who has been in the set from day 1. Or even berate a teacher for marking they have not done, because the student just changed into their set and had a supply teacher for a term, who is not required to mark at secondary level.

Or formally observe a teacher as per timetable, being, say, an English specialist SLT member observing a Physics lesson and failing said teacher, because you yourself did not understand the lesson content of a year 11 class.

Observations (usually 2-3 per year, on top of many mini-observations called "Learning Walks") are very high-stakes, done by one person, who is typically not knowledgable in that subject. One poor observation can lead to "support" being offered for 6 weeks, typically consisting of many more written observations and work scrutinies, more time being taken up by chats about said lesson observations instead of being given over to planning etc.

Or putting a person on a temporary contract, with the promise of being made permanent after completion. Only to put them on another temporary contract. And again. And again...

You can easily break a person doing any of the above.

All of which I have seen happen to colleagues in my time. They were either expensive, have had a period of illness or small children, who required the occasional day off for care, stuck up for their/ colleagues' rights, happened to have the misfortune of being seen to slip up, even just once, from which a whole opinion was then formed, were too honest with parents, ...

I know of two who have been so broken by being "managed out" that, to this day, they still require counselling and medication just to get by. One who had their confidence so utterly destroyed they gave up. Teacher suicide rates are high.

But yes, teaching is, of course, a job for life... Hmm

thatmustbenigelwiththebrie · 01/10/2019 05:30

What I don't understand is if teaching is as awful as people say it is, why don't they leave and do something else? No one is forced to do a job they hate forever.

Dorsetdays · 01/10/2019 05:36

thatmust. I asked a similar question earlier unthread but it was ignored.

Teachers on here keep telling the rest of us to try it out if it’s so easy as there are so many vacancies. At the same time, there are also many teachers saying that 50 hour weeks and working all holiday isn’t their experience. Most of us also know teachers who don’t work in the way that is being described on here.

My question was why wouldn’t you move into a role in one of those better schools? After all, there are good and bad organisations in every sector so vote with your feet.

dobedobedobedoo · 01/10/2019 05:50

What I don't understand is if teaching is as awful as people say it is, why don't they leave and do something else? No one is forced to do a job they hate forever.

Because changing (some) jobs is hard.

I work in the NHS. Leaving/changing career is something I continue to think long and hard about. I’ve done my job for 20 years. I get well paid, and given the current staff shortages in the NHS (it’s the same for teaching) unless I actually kill someone no-one is going to sack me any time soon. So I could give up my well paid, secure job or I could just carry on moaning about it.....and right now I do the latter. Teachers don’t get as well paid as me, but they get the long holidays, and job security.......and both of those are perks not to be sniffed at.
And I just can’t think of anything else to do that pays the bills and I’d enjoy. I’m sure it’s ditto for teachers.

Dorsetdays · 01/10/2019 06:11

Dobed. I do understand that but if you’re working in a sector that has hundreds of vacancies who wouldn’t you at least move to one of the better organisations (schools) who don’t make their teachers work 50 hour weeks?