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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Okay, about teachers...

999 replies

KitKat1985 · 28/09/2019 13:21

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

OP posts:
echt · 30/09/2019 05:49

Sorry Vehivle, no-one gives a fuck about social workers, and by that I mean the government. Teachers are in the public eye because of their childcare function, so have more traction.

Your union needs to get more active, raise the profile of the job. Stop being angry with teachers, start getting pissed off with your union.

I say this and my child is training in social work. My first advice, when asked, was: have an exit plan, i.e. get into admin/government so as not to burn out and get also get better pay. It's hard job. Let's face it, no-one is ever in touch with you for a good reason. Sad

historysock · 30/09/2019 06:26

I agree op.
Social worker here-probably comparable in terms of stress and taking work home but without the benefits of the long holiday and the yearly pay increase (even if it is paltry, it's better than social work).
I'm actually hoping to retrain a s a teacher this year and have spent lots of time in school doing lesson practice etc. The secondary teachers I've spent time with in two schools actually didn't take work home with them every single night-they seemed to work a bit differently and set homework via homework app that kind of marked itself-outstanding schools ratings wise so must be doing something right- and they were honest enough to say that the holidays were a great perk. In the other school there seemed a bit more in terms of stress and workload-school was managed differently. So I think as in any workplace it's how you are managed and the ethos that contributes to the stress.

I used to be married into a family with three primary teachers in it and the way they used to bang on you'd think they were being nailed to the cross on their way to work every day. It used to grind me a bit tbh, because nothing they were describing was more stressful than lots of other types of work and no more 'vocational but under paid' sort of thing than social work, nursing etc etc-but that wasn't an opinion anyone was allowed to venture.

DecomposingComposers · 30/09/2019 06:34

Wow Vehivle
My son has been in teaching 2 years. He earns £24500 are you telling me you think that's too much?

He hasn't had the pay rise because it isn't fully funded and the school can't afford it so the fact that it was promised means nothing in reality.

If you think that it's so easy and so lucrative and with such good holidays then maybe consider retraining?

bakesalesally · 30/09/2019 06:45

Wow @Vehivle, your comments illustrate how little Knowledge you have about primary education.

I am a primary teacher, and this weekend, I worked until 11pm on Friday, 22:00-04:00 on Saturday night, and 12:00-01:00 on Sunday. And I was back up at 5:30 this morning.

I am not saying it is more stressful than any other profession but please don't label us as having the easier job, as it really isn't

Flatwhite32 · 30/09/2019 06:50

It really really annoyed me to learn my teacher friends earn more money than I do and they teach primary school

@Vehivle, write me a sentence which contains a subordinate clause, starts with a fronted adverbial and contains a preposition then. Your comment is probably the most offensive thing relating to my job that I've ever read on mumsnet. I sincerely hope you don't work with any teachers! I have worked with several social workers in the past, and I'm so glad none of them have had your disgusting attitude.

HavelockVetinari · 30/09/2019 07:11

My mum has taught for 30 years. She's recently retired, but says that no other profession whinges as much as teachers Grin

Comparing it to nursing is wrong IMO - nurses only get 30 days annual leave, work as many hours unpaid as teachers, and have just as much mental load about the people they care for as teachers do.

A recent survey by NASUWT found that teachers' working hours haven't gone up in 20 years. It's a stressful job, and it's particularly hard in the first few years when everything has to be planned from scratch instead of building on previous material, and you're still finding your classroom style.

It's right to acknowledge that it's a tough job, but it's certainly by no means the toughest out there.

Piggywaspushed · 30/09/2019 07:11

Enjoying the idea that a PP seems to think her DSis doesn't particularly work hard on 45 hours a week. That's more than the national average working hours. Considering most primary schools begin around 9 and finish around 3, that is an additional three hours a day to keep on top of her workload.

I am finding myself having to get to work at 7.30 (about to leave) just to manage my stress levels. I have an Open Evening this week that will see me at school til 8.30 pm. That is a 13 hour day. , with the hour and a bit after school to set stuff up and maybe grab a sandwich. Then repeat next week.

Whoops : caught me moaning!

NeverGotMyPuppy · 30/09/2019 07:15

I just love that the ONLY person who has said they work harder than another profession on this thread isn't a teacher and hasn't been criticised for it (they were rightly criticised for unpleasant comments). And yet still people are replying to this imaginary teacher claiming they work harder than anybody else.

How some people are so blind to this is beyond me.

Userzzzzz · 30/09/2019 07:21

Many front line public sector jobs are hugely stressful, underpaid etc. However, I do seem to find teacher friends moan more and so have less sympathy than most because of the holidays. I think also because everyone went to school and they remember their shit teachers, it distorts the perception of the profession. I know I had some amazing, highly dedicated ones but I also had some teachers who quite clearly were not doing hours of prep in their spare time.

fedup21 · 30/09/2019 07:21

It really really annoyed me to learn my teacher friends earn more money than I do and they teach primary school. If they taught physics at secondary or a level I'd understand. But primary school....

I cannot actually believe what I’ve just read! What an unpleasant comment.

Maybe secondary physics teachers should get get a pay rise and earn £60k as they must be properly clever. Primary can just be on £9 an hour because they just play in the sand. Secondary Art-that’s probably easy too-they can have £9 an hour. Secondary PE? That’s just throwing beanbags.

You really haven't covered yourself in glory here.

LolaSmiles · 30/09/2019 07:29

bakesalesally
But all you do in primary is play and finger paint right? It's the step below Geography teachers colouring in? Grin
((Joking!!))

WaterSheep · 30/09/2019 07:36

But all you do in primary is play and finger paint right?

Noooo that's early years. Primary is just reading stories, singing songs, writing the alphabet and a bit of counting. Grin

also joking

fedup21 · 30/09/2019 07:36

it doesn't help my teacher friends enjoy boasting about their holidays

I think most of comments about teachers boil down to jealousy of their holidays.

I have never boasted about them but certainly look forward to them the same as anyone else looks forward to theirs.

There is a massive recruitment and retention problem, so you are welcome to come and join us and get the very same holidays-you will be welcomed with open arms Smile.

Inliverpool1 · 30/09/2019 07:44

As a kindy teacher in a former life I can assure you the early years teachers need to be paid the most. If we get it right, the other teachers reap the rewards for the next 12 years. You’re welcome

GrimalkinsCrone · 30/09/2019 07:44

But fedup, what about all the PE teachers teaching physics by throwing beanbags? And Newton’s laws with football?
Because we know it’s a much more likely scenario than being taught physics or chemistry by someone with an actual degree in that subject.

LolaSmiles · 30/09/2019 07:49

My mistake water
All I do is read books and write stories all day. Grin

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 07:54

Well 22 pages of teachers justifying how their job is so stressful (compared to those on active service in Helmund who are apparently lucky they don’t take work home with them or A&E nurses who never see or deal with anything horrific or traumatic and get three days off a week etc etc). Teachers working through the night until 5am...

You’ve done a sterling job of persuading others that on the whole teachers don’t moan and don’t claim they have it the toughest....oh wait 🥴🙄

DippyAvocado · 30/09/2019 07:57

For people that don't understand what work needs to be done at home, here are some examples for primary:

We plan our own lessons. There isn't some central place we can just download them all from. We have to think of learning objectives, teaching ideas and ideas for activities that include challenge for the more able and different activities for those who won't be able to do the standard work. We have to type up each of these plans - so five maths lessons, five English lessons and then usually around 10 afternoon lessons per week. Quite often, the children's learning goes in a different direction so you have to adjust your planning and rewrite it.

Each lesson needs resources. Most primary schools don't have textbooks so you make or source your own resources, eg PowerPoints, worksheets, writing frames, sentence starters etc. You need different resources for the children with SEN. Sometimes you can find some online but you still need to spend time searching and then adapting for your class.

After the work is done, it needs marking. Up to 30 lessons a week. Sometimes you can just tick but generally you have to make corrections, write comments, give children a "next step" or something to do to show they've understood. If it was a practical lesson, photos need sticking in. Everything needs to be evidenced.

If you work in an office-based job, imagine you had to prepare four presentations a day with activities for all participants then you had to give them all individual feedback.

That is it from a purely teaching point of view, but on top of that is record keeping, preparing assemblies and plays, clubs, creating displays etc.

It's not the most stressful in the world, although stress levels can vary depending on the demands of your SLT. But it is very time-consuming and tiring. Just managing 30 7-year olds for 6 hours a day is tiring, let alone all the preparation and work that goes into teaching them.

TryingAndFailing39 · 30/09/2019 07:57

It really really annoyed me to learn my teacher friends earn more money than I do and they teach primary school. If they taught physics at secondary or a level I'd understand. But primary school

I have taught up to A-level Maths (less now due to the more pastoral and leadership nature of my role) but I can honestly say I think in many ways it is harder to be a primary school teacher. The amount of preparation and admin seems a lot more and classes are mixed and large (I’m in a private school so have small classes).

I don’t think your post is as ignorant as it appears. I think it’s spiteful and goady

noblegiraffe · 30/09/2019 07:59

Told you it would be social workers v teachers next.

Just waiting for a firefighter now.

WilsonandNoodles · 30/09/2019 08:07

I'm a teacher. I think there's a few problems.

1.Teaching is stressful and you do take the work home with you so don't really get away from it.

  1. People who aren't teachers often tell you that you have it easy which provokes the defensive attitude.
  2. Quite a few teachers go straight in to teaching from university and don't experience other careers so other than part time student jobs don't fully understand that everyone works hard. (I am sure this is the case for a lot of careers but it is these teachers in my experience that think they have it the hardest).

Having said all that I don't know of any teachers that would claim to have a harder job than the average nurse.

Mimi91 · 30/09/2019 08:07

In my previous job role, I used to take phone calls, sometimes from teachers. We provided a benefit and they would have to ring to register with us. I would have to ask how much their gross salary was and I would always get "not as much as i should be getting". Sometimes I would preempt them saying it so I didn't have to hear it again. It was double my salary so would find it difficult to respond (would usually go with a fake laugh).

I have nothing but respect for the job teachers do. I couldn't do it. I wouldn't want to do it. I do wonder why so many teachers who hate their jobs still do it? Is it for the children? You chose that profession, you choose to stay in that profession. At the end of the day, it is a CHOICE.

I know people in the police force (now a detective), a paramedic and a social worker who never really complain, i am genuinely curious why teachers feel the need to be so defensive about their job. Is it the public's perception? Are parents and ofsted harder than criminals to deal with?

Unfortunately, I don't have a great experience with teachers as a whole, they were sadly the worst customers to deal with. Generally, condescending and would very often take their stress out on the poor person at the end of the phone Sad

TryingAndFailing39 · 30/09/2019 08:09

Having said all that I don't know of any teachers that would claim to have a harder job than the average nurse.

Nor do I and I’m not sure these MN gloating arrogant lazy teachers actually exist!

silly248 · 30/09/2019 08:11

@DippyAvocado

We plan our own lessons. There isn't some central place we can just download them all from. We have to think of learning objectives, teaching ideas and ideas for activities that include challenge for the more able and different activities for those who won't be able to do the standard work. We have to type up each of these plans - so five maths lessons, five English lessons and then usually around 10 afternoon lessons per week. Quite often, the children's learning goes in a different direction so you have to adjust your planning and rewrite it.

I think most people would assume that’s what teachers do anyway!

In your school is there honestly no scope to reuse resources?

With my children they have completed the same worksheets, do same projects? They are a couple of years apart in age .
I guess when you are starting out you have to have to do everything from scratch but can’t you re use any lesson plans ?

TalentedMsRipley · 30/09/2019 08:14

Inliverpool1 I completely agree (and I teach sixth form). I could never cope with the workload of primary teaching either.