Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

never
I just think it's funny that the lengths some are willing to go to confirm what I said in my first post on this thread: it's a typical thread where any challenges to silly nonsense is taken as bizarre proof the nonsense is true.

Maybe by page 25 we'll have "yeah well... Well... It just is true that they all hate their jobs because because I say so so nerrr".

I really want someone to do my quiz.

but such insane hours are unsustainable is what I'm trying to say. why not do something about it instead of moaning.

why not do something about it instead of moaning

I’m not moaning, please don’t generalise. What should we “do about it”?

Do you know what gets done in the additional hours?

Red chocolate.......this is the thing......like you, many people cannot imagine what it is that teachers are taking home or why they need to. So then they decide they either don't actually do it and just moan or are totally inefficient.

All of us saw teachers in the classroom as children, which is why everyone is pretty sure they know what is involved. Many of us were at school years ago when teachers didn't have tondo so much outside of the classroom, and for the younger amongst us, as children, you really only see the classroom part.

So I'm not saying it's a harder job than other jobs - what would be the pointed trying to compare, because there is no competition to win a prize for hardest job. I'm simply saying there are lots of aspects to the job that people don't fully get. Especially for primary they can't imagine what can fill hours outside the classroom in terms of the marking of small children's work, nor really picture that a bit of record keeping can take more than a few minutes, or dreaming up a lesson take long, nor that there can be other aspects that have become part of the job and all take time.

Yes, some people are inefficient and slow and some perhaps are martyrs and do much more than needed, but very many report multIple hours spent at weekends and evenings doing work and having a sense that they are never really finished.

Again, lots of jobs are hard. I think the comparison to social workers is probably quite a good one. Yes, a child protection social worker also has the fear that a wrong decision might put a child in serious risk or harm a family. Switching off from that kind of thing is hard too.

I think the people who are most critical of teachers or any job in fact are usually those who simply don't really understand the open ended nature of some jobs - because they work very fixed hours and in jobs that they very much leave behind when they go home. It's just different. So they imagine those other jobs as being a bit like theirs, with perhaps an extra hour or two on top. They can't quite imagine how it can be different and how being so open ended doesn't result in people working less but often more.

I said before, that rarely do people in the hard jobs and open ended jobs make comparisons between their own and other hard jobs or make much comment about their own. They don't try to make it into a competition for the worst job. They know the reality of their own job and just getnonnwith it or leave. It's the other people who seem to be annoyed that teachers get holidays they don't, think teachers say their job is the hardest (when few people have ever heard a teacher make this comparison in reality) and decide the holidays mean anything not so good is just par for the course,malmost in lieu of having shorter holidays.

Hey ho!

@SmileEachDay I would love to do it but sadly I would be cheating as though I am technically a non teacher I was not always so.

(Although I would guess at the end of week 4 you're assessment marking. Trick question about the PPA time as obviously that is being used for a last minute meeting you don't know about yet and so my answer is "with a time turner")

I know my (teaching severely learning disabled kids) isn't the worst job in the world.
a) because I chose to do it for decades because I loved it,
and
b) because there are social workers. I honestly don't know why anyone would do this. Seriously, whatever decision they take, they'll be wrong in someone's eyes.And when that decsion really does turn out to be the wrong one, it doesn't bear thinking about.

Hats off to any SWs on here.

Alittleodd

Shhh. No cheating allowed.

Time turner is about right, but I’ll accept guesses from NON TEACHERS about my allocation, rather than the actual number (although tbf my new school thus far have been v good at respecting PPAs)

@redchocolatebutton what would you like us to do? Serious genuine question, answers on a postcard.

Also - and I really do hate to be pedantic- I wasnt moaning. Please dont ask me not to do something i wasnt doing. Or were you- as is so often the case - meaning 'you' as 'all tecahers', as if we all live together and think exactly the same?

thanks for explaining. it's enlightening, if a bit disturbing tbh.
work-life balance is important and I wish that teachers can achieve that.

@LolaSmiles yes I completely agree. It's a very strange thing, people being so heavily invested in somebody else's job and challenging something they have said when they havent said it...

Why is it that it varies so much?? Seriously my dsis is a teacher and her workload is nothing like described on here. She works 8-5. She doesn't work at weekends. She does very little extra in the holidays. Expected to run some clubs, and help out at discos, Christmas Fayres etc. But generally seems to have a good balance and yes long holidays! This is not me looking with envious rose tinted goggles, this is actually how it is. She's primary though.

NeverGotMyPuppy
It is really quite bizarre and quite a weird amount of effort.

This thread has got me thinking of all the times friends (teaching and not) have had some horrible situations at work, or offloaded about their day.
I've got a few friends post-doccing in universities and they have some fairly sector specific problems. Not once has it ever crossed my mind to decide I'm an expert in their field,or to decide I can generalise to a whole sector. I've left a few conversations thinking "rather you than me", but never once felt like I need to start a thread "being brave" to talk about how all post docs do is moan about lack of jobs security and discrimination and poor terms and conditions and bullying academics. I certainly wouldn't then try to hunt down forums for post docs and academics and then use that as proof that I know they think their job is loads more difficult when everyone is stressed. I certainly wouldn't say "and they get funded international travel for conferences but I doubt they work all that time so it's a holiday on work time and money" and so on.

It would be a really bloody weird thing to do!

pjmask
Different schools have different cultures.
I've worked 70-75 hours a week in one school, had my mental health affected and nearly left the profession to return to my old job before teaching.
In a better school I work more like 8-5:30 with a bit extra around weekend and holidays (including the usual GCSE and a level pressures and revision). I'm in a place I'm respected, where senior leaders care about staff. Different school contexts bring about different pressures.
Talking to friends and colleagues I know I'm in the minorty.

pjmask

No teacher or school is a one size fits all. Some schools have 2000 odd pupils. Some schools have 300 odd pupils. Some have fewer pupils with SEND. Some have teachers who have just started out and some who have been working for years. Some teachers put in very little effort and do the bare minimum. Some teachers have poor time management. Some teachers bend over backwards to take on more so that pupils benefit. Some teachers have to deal with more parents. Some teachers have to take on more to reduce the slack caused by those aforementioned ‘bare minimum ’ teachers. Some teachers work in schools that have unrealistic expectations. Some don’t.

Why not ask your sister why she doesn’t work at the weekend or in any of the school holidays and leaves by 5pm everyday. We wouldn’t know.

What I wouldn’t give for three months off every year ... and only 30 kids and a few end of term KPIs to think about

Most stupid post, if someone seriously thought this then it's not rocket science - train as a teacher then.

Can’t we all just agree that every job is crap and we all want better money?

Come on lottery win.

I've not RTFT but I'd say the reason teachers go on about how tough their job is is because of the lack of respect and acknowledgement they get nowadays for doing a very demanding and accountable job. They need to justify. In fact, decades ago, in the days teaching was less demanding and accountable, they had a lot more automatic professional respect in society.

Nurses on the other hand automatically are seen as saints, not martyrs (as teachers are viewed). What is the difference between a saint and a martyr anyway? Not much....

I was a teacher but I'm not anymore. I work more hours now than I did as a teacher, but am much, much less stressed. People have a much higher regard for my current job even though there is much less challenge and accountability within my role. People cross-examine me less about the perks of my current job, and seem to feel I deserve them more, even though I do much less.

It's hard work to change people's perceptions to the realities of your job. Teachers who appear to be whinging are just trying to be honest about what they face, in my opinion.

What I wouldn’t give for three months off every year ... and only 30 kids and a few end of term KPIs to think about

Assuming you're a graduate, all you need to give is the year it takes to train and qualify as a teacher. Why haven't you given it if you're desperate for those holidays?

"This also exactly describes teaching though. Child protection social workers are an amazing lot on the whole. Especially as you don’t need a specific degree to do it anymore and funding is so tight."

Yes you do. A degree or a master's. It's a protected title and you have to register with a professional body. What on earth made you think they don't?

Apologies, I am out of date. When I was considering starting a career in social work, all you needed was a Diploma in Social Work. I see those started to be phased out in 2009. Again, sorry for getting that wrong.

I'm a teacher and never preach that my job is any worse than another job.. but I do moan about my job - as do many others! If i was to compare my job to my friend who is a nurse I would say her job was much harder.

I've arrived a little late to this thread. But I'm a social worker. I work longer than the set school times and I take work home with me all the time. It's very hard to switch off from my job. Latest home visit I've done finished at 11pm. That was with a colleague as it was a risky household so we went in pairs. Then had to write up case notes after I got home because if anything happened to the child, I wanted my actions and rational to be clear. It really really annoyed me to learn my teacher friends earn more money than I do and they teach primary school. If they taught physics at secondary or a level I'd understand. But primary school.... plus they boast about their summer holidays, the fact they always get Christmas and Easter off whilst we need to rota it as everyone wants to be off over Christmas but there needs to be enough ground staff in to cover the front line. And it really really annoyed me when I read Theresa May's last act in office was to give TEACHERS a pay rise! We social workers have had our salaries frozen for ages too! You're already earning more than us in parts of the country. Why do you deserve a pay rise and not social workers or nurses or any other hard working public profession? Sorry. I appreciate I'm tarring you all with the same brush... it doesn't help my teacher friends enjoy boasting about their holidays and pay. It makes me feel like a complete idiot for doing stressful social work for far less pay and seemingly less progression opportunities too.

If they taught physics at secondary or a level I'd understand. But primary school

Intrigued that you think primary is so much easier than secondary @Vehivle - why is that? Having experience of working in both I found primary far more exhausting.

Wow, @Vehivle what a nasty post.

Primary school teachers reportedly work more hours than secondary teachers. It's one of the reasons I always preferred secondary teaching when I was on supply - the marking load was crazy and I was only required to mark Maths and English. I'd have to stay an extra 2 hours; most people would have to work far longer than that to cover marking all those books, plus deal with parents, meetings, planning etc.

While teaching Physics at secondary school is not exactly a walk in the park, it's way less work than that.

Sure it's boasting your "friends" do? Or just sharing the joy of having some time off and your green-eyed monster is rearing its ugly head?

Are you aware why teachers have got a pay rise? Because no one wants to do the job anymore. They deal with 30+ students at a time, for several hours a day, and then their parents etc. in potentially violent households, too. Colleagues do home visits, too, outside of normal working hours - to check attendance, welfare and in exam season to ferry reluctant teens into school to sit their exams.

Why beguile teachers something good in return? Should we all stay on minimum wage, because that would be fairer? Or would it not be time, perhaps, for social workers to make some noise? Not that the pay rise even materialised for a lot of us... I know I haven't seen mine yet; it's been quietly not mentioned, because, again, it's not fully funded.

"Any other hard-working profession" has also had pay rises - police, health service etc. have all had increases, even though I am sure what they officially got vs. what actually arrived in their pockets was, like teaching, quite different.

And if you do feel like an idiot doing social work, enjoy the perks of teaching. You don't need much; 6 weeks' training and off you go through some teaching routes. But then, teaching isn't a job for anyone doing it for the pay or the holidays...