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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do I change my ds schools?

123 replies

Namechangewho · 27/09/2019 21:59

Name change as on previous post I didn’t reveal age or gender as was quite an unusual situation which could’ve been outed.
Ds (year 9) has been in school just under 4 weeks and has somehow managed to accumulate 20! (Yes, you read that correctly) detentions which is just unacceptable and has left me wondering whether his school is right for him and if a fresh start may be necessary.

OP posts:
SlavesToTheKitchen · 28/09/2019 06:11

I also have been told it’s not bringing the actual excessive books with him.
Surely this can be solved by you watching him pack his school bag?

seaweedandmarchingbands · 28/09/2019 08:17

So sick of hearing about parents calling schools to ask what “support” the school can provide with their child’s disruptive behaviour. They are supporting him, with clear expectations and consequences. It is now the OP’s job to support them, by A) not arguing with the consequences and B) reinforcing them at home by removing things he really cares about and C) if necessary, supervising bag packing, homework D) if possible, dropping off and picking up from school and school detentions and generally being clear with him that these things won’t stop until he stops being an idiot.

He’s Y9. Not Y4.

CherryPavlova · 28/09/2019 08:50

I’d think even suggesting moving schools was allowing an option of him not taking responsibility for his behaviours.
The problem sounds like it is lots of different teachers giving him detentions but being unaware of how many he is getting. They have clearly lost their effectiveness and don’t work as a sanction.
You need to arrange a meeting with his tutor/head of year/head of house and work together. If shabby behaviour persists it will have a serious impact on achievement at GCSE which aren’t far away. He needs to knuckle down now and you need to support that rather than consider him running away from the problems.

You need to be setting him up to succeed. You need his timetable and you need to supervise his packing each morning. If he’s rushing in the mornings and therefore just throwing everything in at the last moment, wake him up half an hour earlier or ensure bag is packed the night before.
You could ask the school for a mentor to be provided from a willing member of staff or sensible sixth former.
You should be talking to him, in detail about his day. Asking how each lesson went and praising where it has been enjoyed or he’s reporting good work/behaviour.
Try to avoid a continuous cycle of ever increasing sanctions but do have known rewards. No detentions this week - let’s go to the cinema on Friday. Sanction only the worst misdemeanours and don’t punish twice for the same crime.
Get him into a routine. Have a set homework time. Support him in doing well at homework so he receives praise in class. He shouldn’t need homework support in Y9 but clearly does. By support I mean knowing what his homework is, asking him how it’s going, making suggestions and providing ideas, showing an interest and have him work where you are so at the kitchen table, not shut away in his room on his phone whilst he does half hearted scribbling.
Have him dress the part. Make sure uniform breaches aren’t too excessive and won’t mean he’s singled out as ‘trouble’. I mean no shaven heads with ticks in the side, no shaven sides and foppish long fringes. Make him follow the rules.
Reduce screen time, reduce added sugars in his food, increase exercise with good sleep hygiene. No phone in bedroom or an hour before bed. No phone during homework time. Get rid or severely limit violent or high adrenaline online or video games.
Increase his home responsibilities so he realises he’s meant to be growing up. Cooking supper once or twice a week, loading or emptying dishwasher or washing up, doing laundry, mowing the lawn, valeting the car etc.

How’s his reading? If he struggles academically get him support and spend time on the basic skills to make lessons easier. Hard to understand history if you are not a good reader. Not understanding makes messing about more likely. You’ll have a better idea when you support homework as you’ll be looking at what he’s doing and teacher comments.

How are his friendships? Is he in with a group of disaffected, low aspiring lads? If so, manipulating his social contacts might be useful. Children respond to peer pressure and a group of high achievers are likely to drop a problem child pretty quickly. Don’t let him fall in with the wrong crowd. Restrict the ‘hanging about’ in a feckless manner after school. Add structure.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 28/09/2019 11:11

The problem sounds like it is lots of different teachers giving him detentions but being unaware of how many he is getting. They have clearly lost their effectiveness and don’t work as a sanction.
You need to arrange a meeting with his tutor/head of year/head of house and work together.

I have seen this tried before. The detentions get cancelled (because there are so many) there is a meeting. “Strategies” are “put in place” (kid gets time out card for when he is “struggling”, parent runs self ragged checking report cards, teachers are reporting back to HOY after every lesson).

Nothing changes.

Why? Because all child hears is, “Great; now I don’t have to do detention.”

And how is that fair on the children who slip up once or twice and have to sit their detentions? It isn’t. So they hear: “Right. The naughtier I am, the less I will be punished.”

TeenPlusTwenties · 28/09/2019 11:24

it seems to be disruptive behaviour , missing detentions , not focussing and missing equipment over multiple occasions

This could be a sign a kid just not caring.
Or it could be a sign of a disorganised kid not coping. Even 'disruptive behaviour' could be asking to borrow equipment etc, or asking what to do if he hasn't followed/grasped the instructions.

It is quite possible for a child with, say undiagnosed dyspraxia, to cope in primary and lower secondary when less organisation is expected of them, and then to struggle as they go on up the school.

OP How is your DS reacting? Does he care, or is he distressed he keeps getting into trouble? (Or is he pretending not to care as a kind of bravado?)

I'd try for a week or 2 for you to be really hands on at home. Check what homework he has and make sure it gets done. Make sure that school books that come home don't wander around the house and actually make it back to school. Make sure he has all his PE kit, geometry kit etc. Tell the school you are doing this.

Then after 2 weeks review.

Moving schools won't magically solve things. Unless he is either in with bad friends, or the schools have very different ethos/discipline systems.

LIZS · 28/09/2019 11:28

Is it purely due to his attitude or might he have an underlying SEN which could affect focus, memory, organisation, behaviour etc?

Namechangewho · 28/09/2019 11:31

His friendships seem to be great and he is a bright boy so I don’t think he’s struggling Academically.Also, his homework doesn’t seem to be a problem however, I assume it’s not done to a great standard considering I never see him do it. Apparently, he does it on the bus which isn’t great. He does football once a week but is quite lazy always on his PlayStation and always asking me to do things when he can do them himself.

OP posts:
Bigearringsbigsmile · 28/09/2019 11:37

Someone always suggests an sen!

How about he is a scally who arses about in school and his parents are ineffectual?
20 detentions in 3 weeks is Terrible!
My son is y12 and hasn't had a single one ever.

Major consequences at home!

seaweedandmarchingbands · 28/09/2019 11:37

Right, so his attitude is just crap.

Namechangewho · 28/09/2019 11:38

I don’t think he has SEN as he was great in primary school (hardly any bad behaviour apart from a few times). His organisation was a problem then as I had to usually bring things to school he’d forgotten ect. His focus was never brought up but I remember when I sat doing homework with him, he’d do a question or two and then want a break. When he first started getting more detentions, he cried and said he’d never do it again ect. however as time has gone on, he doesn’t react like he used to. I don’t know if this is because he’s fed up of hearing the same thing or because he doesn’t care.

OP posts:
Bigearringsbigsmile · 28/09/2019 11:39

Doing it on the bus us terrible. Do you not have to sign a homework journal?
Sit him down at the table and watch him do his homework. If he's going to behave like a small child, treat him like one. Take away the playstation. Stop running around after him.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 28/09/2019 11:39

It’s because there are no serious consequences that he is able to see, OP. You need to make the long-term short-term.

user1493494961 · 28/09/2019 11:44

You don't seem particularly bothered, bin the PlayStation.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 28/09/2019 11:44

Yup. Bin it.

HiJenny35 · 28/09/2019 11:49

What do you mean you've never seen him do his homework? How is this ok? You haven't tried everything to be honest it doesn't sound like you've tried anything. Sit him down, sorry PlayStation has been removed till things change, homework will be done up the table on Tuesday and Thursday nights with me, I want to see what you have and how it's completed, meeting with school booked for next week, suggest a journal that he takes to every lesson and teacher completes at the end of the lesson, checked by head of year at end of each day, homework also noted in. Check his bag every morning, what is he packing? Find out everything he needs and go through the bag with him. Make it all tedious and annoying, he'll soon realise it's easier to behave. Moving schools isn't the answer, showing him this isn't acceptable is.

OhTheRoses · 28/09/2019 11:49

DD never got detentions as was always well behaved and high performing despite having difficulty doing homework. She carried all books at all times too scared to forget one. At 15 anxiety and depression set in along with self harm because she wasn't coping with feeling she was failing herself. It got worse. She was diagnosed with ADHD/ADD at 17. She turned the corner immediately although the mh and its management took longer. As soon as it was diagnosed every bit of the puzzle fell into place. No teacher had ever raised a concern. CAMHS were hopeless.

You post has lots of red flags. Have a google op. See if the traits are there and if so push for a referral. You may have to pay to get him the help he needs.

With love it's hard.

LIZS · 28/09/2019 11:50

Suggest you ask school to assess for processing issues in case his attitude is masking an actual problem or to eliminate it . Moving school now will only transfer the problem. Remove ps and supervise homework more closely.

TeenPlusTwenties · 28/09/2019 11:51

My DD1 coped apparently fine in primary. But she wasn't.
I wrote a list of things to the school saying what she struggled with, and they fobbed me off. Re-reading it now it screams dyspraxia. (She was eventually formally diagnosed in y11 but I had put massive scaffolding in place for her to cope in secondary.)

For example we discovered that she couldn't follow an ordered list of instructions. She got by in school by seeing what the person next to her was doing.
In her OT assessment she used talking as a way of distracting from starting a task she didn't think she could do. The OT noticed and voiced this as a common avoidance strategy.

I really would rule out general disorganisation difficulties - you might as well, you have nothing to lose.

Namechangewho · 28/09/2019 11:54

When I say I’ve never seen him do it, I haven’t seen him complete any however, it’s usually always completed. I’ve tried banning PlayStation and he did the same thing with his phone so I then took that. His behaviour or organisation didn’t improve. I feel as though he cares but I’m not sure. I feel as though he’d rather do anything apart from work. I ask him to do homework, he will be downstairs every 5 minutes playing with the football, making food , getting a drink. This is why I feel he doesn’t care anymore.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 28/09/2019 11:58

Agree with MollyButton

"You need to contact the school for an urgent meeting about this."

I think you've tried the stick (grounding/removal of devices) so maybe try the carrot.

If you have a car, maybe go for a drive and talk about school. Drive because it's less threading talking in the car than face to face. Maybe make him help you with the weekly shop or whatever.

Try and get to the bottom of it, is it inappropriate/disruptive friends, bullying, a love interest, a sense of hopelessness, the fact work is harder etc?

Italiangreyhound · 28/09/2019 12:01

What would incentvise him? A new game for his device he can earn some sort of 'merit' points at home and save up for (if you can afford it).

Maybemore freedoms if he earns them?

The real reward is a smoother time at school and potentially better results. Can you help him see the link between his behaviour and outcomes?

Would he welcome a change of school or fear it?

IMHO if he wwould welcome a change of school, something is almost certainly wrong at school!

If he would fear it, you could make that an incentive (not changing schools if he sorts his act out!).

Good luck. Flowers

Londonmummy66 · 28/09/2019 12:04

Year 9 is often pretty brutal as they are studying so many subjects and the academic pressure is ramping up as they head to GCSEs and often tolerance for forgetting things etc goes as they aren't the little kids any longer etc etc. I have 2 DC, a little miss organised and a captain chaotic. After a terrible start to year 9 we finally got a dyspraxia diagnosis. An inability to organise is one of the characteristics as is a lack of focus/being easily distracted. Its very much the Cinderella of the SEN world and brighter children often mask it well - worth looking at

Namechangewho · 28/09/2019 12:05

I think ,personally, he would fear it. An incentive is a good idea which hopefully will work.

OP posts:
Witchinaditch · 28/09/2019 12:11

Year 9 is usually where the worst behaviour starts to show, mix of hormones and feeling like the big I am around school. I’m not sure what the answer is here but you’re right maybe a new school and a fresh start will do him good, maybe he needs to get away from his friendship circle?

Italiangreyhound · 28/09/2019 12:13

Great posts by Jenny, Roses, TeenPlusTwenties and others.

Do not bin the play station. Use his interests and hobbies to his/your advantage. Show him the link between good behaviour/hard work and getting what he wants in life.

Explore dispraxia etc and see if he may need extra help. Don't ignore the warning signs that things are not OK.

Help him figure out a way to get the things he needs onto his bag each day.

My dd is on the autistic spectrum, not diagnosed until 13, now nearly 15, Year 10. All kinds of issues re depression and anxiety. We did know something was wrong but never saw all of this coming.

Don't move schools unless this is really the right thing for him, first engage with him snd school even more.

Treat the behaviour as a puzzle to be solved, finding out why, and reassuring your son you are there for him etc.