What happens to children starting school with chaotic parents?

[jennymanara]

In England and Wales, what happens to kids whose parents have too chaotic a life to make a school application for their kids starting school, or do not have the level of literacy required to make a school application? Are children just automatically allocated any school?

Chaotic I mean badly organised, not good at planning ahead. That can be for lots of reasons.

I have 2 dc at primary in Scotland, I also have friends with dc who live all over Scotland in different LA. I’ve never known anyone just be allocated a space. We apply in November- there’s an application week. Here we get a letter notifying us of the dates and what our catchment school is. Not sure if that’s true of everywhere. Late applications are open until around the end of February. Nursery are on the ball with this. Dd 1 went to a school nursery in a different area and I had a member of staff come to me on a panic that I hadn’t applied for her school place there after the application week (I’d applied to our catchment school not her nursery school). Dd2 nursery did a massive amount of transition. You are technically guaranteed a place at your catchment school if you apply before late app closes but there are instances of very oversubscribed schools in our LA area where catchment children are just bumped to the top of the waiting list as they will not employ a new teacher for one child or a handful of children. I think around 30% of children in this area go to private school so it would be rather wasteful to allocate every child a space

I was overwhelmed when it came to applying for a place for DS, I was working 48 hours a week, had DD who had just started year 1 and DS in pre-school. That meant three school runs a day and very little sleep! I also had a teen DD.

Pre-school seemed to know I hadn't done it and very nicely nagged me until I did!

Health visitors are involved until the child reaches school age when the school nurse takes over.

That’s the theory. There hasn’t been a school nurse in my borough since 2016.

When I had my first child I was astonished at how few ‘professional’ checks there were
Midwife came everyday for the first 10 days and then hv came at 8 mo and 2 years that was that - my second and third saw the hv once I really thought they’d check up on me more
No letters were sent reminding me of school application. I enrolled each of them at the school nursery and because we were ‘in the system’ we got the right application forms. Don’t know what would have happened if not

I do remember a news story about a little girl who was abused and it was only the investigation after she’d died that discovered that there’d never been a school application made
Very sad

heather

Services have been cut to the bone. I’ve been trying to get hold of a HV for a mum I’m supporting - her DD is due her 12-month check but there hasn’t been any communication from the health visiting service about it. We’ve both been trying to contact them - I was on hold for 40 minutes on Friday before I finally gave up. We’re going to go in person next week and not leave until she has an appointment!

I would not rely on the HV system to catch everyone who needs help. I saw a HV for the 6 week check when she did the Edinburgh test and the next time I saw her was for dd’s 13 month check. Oh, she said, when we went in, it’s great to see you so well. I was certain that you were on the way to post natal depression. I was gob smacked - that she thought that and never once even phoned me, never mind calling in. I don’t know if they’re just too busy to cope, or she was just rubbish at her job, or maybe we didn’t tick the right boxes because I don’t have a chaotic life but to think a mother might be depressed and not check on the welfare of the baby really surprised me. I think a lot of children do fall through gaps in the system and aren’t on the radar for social services when they ought to be.

I work with chaotic families. The primary school will be made aware. Contary to a previous post; children do not always get into school because 'it is seen as free childcare'. Whilst lots of people may think the rush to get them up and get them in means 6 hours to themselves to do whatever, not everyone sees it this way. Unfortunately there are some parents who do not give education any value for whatever reason (although usually because it was not valued in their childhood) and see no point. Then there are those who cannot afford the uniform, cannot manage the chaos in the mornings of trying to get the children to school and then there are the children who basically are carers for the younger non-school age children.
In my experience when we do manage to get these children in (and in my amazing cluster we have learning mentors/ teachers/social workers pick them up on the way in, people buy uniform/books out of their own pocket and schools offer free breakfast club/after school clubs) education is a refuge and safe place. I am absoulutley amazed at the resilience of these young people, so different to all their friends through no fault of their own. And remember how crap it is to be different at school and the 'poor one' without a phone/ clean uniform or a home you can bring friends back to.

My DC went to school with a child from Libya. The child’s fathers said they were going back to Libya so they didn’t register at senior school. We have seen the child wandering around sometimes and they left primary 3 yrs ago. Seems he hasn’t been to school since then. My DC asked him if he is home schooled and he said no

Talking as the child of ‘chaotic parents’. DON’T HAVE MORE KIDS.

It’s fucking SELFISH and incredibly unfair to drag innocents into your shitty mess of a life. Regardless of your mates telling you ‘ you’re a great mum love’.....you’re not. You are busking life and busking parenting.

I can say this because my ‘chaotic’ parents are a fucking liability. I missed out on so much, was bullied because I smelt, didn’t have clean clothes, trendy clothes, nits, bad teeth,, missed school trips, didn’t bring friends home...etc etc. I helped THEM from 6 years old....cooking cleaning, reminding them about appointments etc.

If I could go back I’d slap them both and say foster me out.
I love them but I hate them. I shouldn’t have yo feel that way.

DD missed starting school nursery because I assumed we'd get a letter from the council (we didn't, they no longer sent them). We were first time parents and didn't really have any idea. We did get letters for vaccinations etc so just presumed. By the time I realised, the deadline had gone. DD was with a CM full time anyway, so wasn't missing out as such, but it could be very easy to miss the deadline.

Our new LA doesn't send application letters but the neighbouring one does. I was reminded to find out the dates for DD starting Reception on MN. By the time DS started, we knew what to expect. School put posters up everywhere for Y7 applications.

I work with chaotic drug using parents.

This school year I put in the application for one child and I have continually checked whether he has been picked up every day. I worry about him more than I worry about my own children.

I do think these sort of family miss out on kids going to brownies/scouts due to waiting lists because you have to find out who to contact and stay contactable for years in advance and some require parents to volunteer

I am a GP and I have seen it in a social services report that they have tasked a parent with "looking at the email sent by the council to see what school there school was allocated on allocation day". So social services have put in writing that they expect the parent to undertake the school application process in the case of that child on their case load

I work within a child orientated area and it’s quite worrying how many children live in a chaotic home, as for that answer to your question I have no idea but I can only hope that the county steps i .

Kerry - so sorry for your chaotic childhood. It sucks youhad to go through that

Someone in the school office at DDs primary told me that children are sometimes simply left there in the morning. Sometimes they don’t speak any English, although this is not always the case of course.

@FamilyOfAliens Health visitors? they are a bad joke. mine came once, spend 20 minutes talking about herself and how hard her job is, and has never been seen again. my oldest is 6...

Most of the children with chaotic backgrounds in my area are known to my school before they apply : through nursery / pre-school, our school social worker, health visitors, traveller liason officers or prior knowledge of the family. They usually get prompted and supported to apply. If application is missed they go on the waiting list.

Every year once I send out the secondary application letters, I then commence another round of chasing up the same families.

A lady I know was single mum to three children and trying to hold down a job. Her youngest attended nursery with mine.

The nursery had advertised about school applications, and had posters up informing you how to apply, and that they’d help.

The mum in question had either not seen the notices, or didn’t attend enough to see them whilst they were up.

The nursery later had a list up ‘please write where your child is attending’ so that teacher visits could be arranged, and it was noticed by the nursery manager that this child didn’t have his name up.

Mum was so surprised she’d missed the deadline and couldn’t understand what had happened. She was then very upset and was taken into the managers office, I’m guessing they sorted it all out for her, as her child is now in the same school as my child.

Her other children weren’t that much older than her youngest, so I have no idea how she’d Managed to get them into school.

Certainly though it seemed as though the nursery were the only professionals who’d noticed this child wasn’t registered at school; and we’ll after the closing date for the applications too! Why is this ok? What would have happened if the child had dropped out if nursery at that point? Or if the nursery hadn’t noticed?! It’s shocking that this can happen in today’s society.

A simple letter of reminder by hv or nurses would suffice and to ring up to remind people if they are illiterate would help.

Not that simple though is it? They'd have to have a list of those parents, or should they write to every single parent to cover all bases? Plus when there isn't enough money to remove children from actual full on neglect, there certainly isn't enough money for this.

CheungS - how would any relevant authority even know of the existence of certain families, let alone send letters or realise that some of them were illiterate and in need of a phone call (a phone call to a mobile number as so many people don't have a land line any more, and how would anyone get their hands on that number?)

I agree that 'chaotic' conjures up an image of a specific sort of home and family though. People can be going through all sorts of crises (relationship, mental health, etc) and still manage to keep a fairly clean home, feed the children - the bare minimum is sometimes the utmost people can do.

I'm in Scotland. I received letters reminding me about registering all three DCs for primary. DS1 started high school in August and we got a letter for him.
Because he has additional needs (ADD) we were also offered a weeks enhanced transition over the summer and the council employee in charge of that basically hounded me until I got my shit together and completed the form for that.

Health visitors? they are a bad joke.

Not in my experience. And even if they were, I’m worried about this baby and think she needs a health professional to check her development.

I’ve known a few primary schools where a parent with a child in tow has turned up on the first day of Autumn term - no application, no nothing.

I’m sure if they are on SS radar then help is given/forms sorted etc.

Not unrelated - a school I worked at wasn’t selective as in tests - but the forms were so complicated that you needed a fair amount of intelligence to get your child in.