What happens to children starting school with chaotic parents?

[jennymanara]

In England and Wales, what happens to kids whose parents have too chaotic a life to make a school application for their kids starting school, or do not have the level of literacy required to make a school application? Are children just automatically allocated any school?

One of the worst things is parents who don’t get it together for secondary. Despite incredibly supportive interventions on their behalf I saw one child sent to a school with no one they knew because no one at home had been bothered. So heartbreaking to see a child with a crappy home life get yet another poor deal.

jenny I know exactly what your mean. Ever since they stopped writing to people about the school applications I have worried about how often this must happen- or parents being allocated unsuitable schools (too far etc) because of not being aware of deadlines etc

Reading this thread I realise just how sheltered our children are. To think parents lives are too chaotic to apply for a school place is frightening.

The HV asks if you have applied for schools at the pre-school check up so I think they would flag up any concerns with SS if necessary

There is no pre school check in my area. There’s a 2 year check and then nothing.

Ever since they stopped writing to people about the school applications I have worried about how often this must happen

I have one in year 1 and one in reception and we had a letter reminding us to apply with both.

My youngest is due to start school next year, this morning I received a letter from Admissions at the Council to let me know that the round has opened and how to apply. I assume they must use doctors lists or birth registers and send letters out to everyone. There are also notices up at nursery.

Not applying for a school place wouldn’t usually be the the first sign of neglect, there’d probably have been an established pattern of the child’s needs not being met in several different ways since birth or a toddler. Such as not being brought for vaccinations, concerns raised by HCPs, etc and so might already be receiving extra provision from health visitor and possibly on a child in need plan which takes into account the different things which are important for child development, and produces tasks for the allocated SW to check are in place.

But if the child isn't registered with the GP, they don't know if they haven't been vaccinated. And if they hadn't seen any HCPs then any issues wouldn't have been flagged up. Health visitors aren't compulsory and it's really easy to not engage with the system if your child is relatively healthy. I've seen several kids whose parents have moved to a new area and simply not updated anyone with their new address - there's noboy to hunt them down or check up on them, they just disappear until they try to access services and it all comes to light, sometimes at school admissions age, sometimes later.

Our school nursery staff reminds parents and will help with the application. Some parents still forget though.

I think letters are area dependent. I didn’t receive anything at all notifying me that admissions were open for either of mine starting primary or secondary.

Letters are area dependent. Some councils send them,

To be honest shit parents are likely to make sure their child goes to school as they consider it free childcare.

Having spent many years working with vulnerable children this is my experience. The kids may be dirty, they may not be in the correct uniform and staff may be obliged to give them breakfast because they arrive hungry but they do generally arrive because the parents want them out of the way. That is until they get older and start resisting coming to school, or getting into trouble at school, that's when their attendance starts to drop off because it becomes easier to keep them home and let them sit on the Xbox all day than it is to actually be firm, be consistent and get them into school.

To be honest shit parents are likely to make sure their child goes to school as they consider it free childcare.
That doesn't necessarily mean they will apply though, they just think it will all happen automatically. I don't think there are letters in my area but there are notices in Post Offices, playgroups, Nurseries and on Facebook but, still, there are people (out of their heads on drugs?) who miss them.

My mum was a crack addict at the time of applying for secondary school. She eventually lost custody of my siblings and I.

Fortunately for me, she liked books. The first book I read was Martina Cole - 2 Women.

I applied by myself. Faked her signature and whatever.

My apologies, I realise this is related to primary schools.

My mum dropped DB and I at the local primary school everyday and refused to collect us as we weren't enrolled.

We were enrolled within 3 weeks.

This was in 1995 though so I'm assuming a lot has changed since.

I'm assuming that these parents would need a friend/ family member or official such as a social worker to help out in this situation.

What happens in Scotland @NeighbourhoodBlotch? I.got letters with my two Ds1 started High school,last year and we got a form in the September of year six ,I could apply either by post or email I even had a call.from his school.asking if i.had applied as I was a bit later ( I didn't miss the deadline )in applying , ds2 is disabled and goes to.a special.school, so.we don't apply in the same way ,it goes to panel etc .

Charity

Not registering your child with a GP and managing to evade any other contact with services in the early years is a very deliberate action and takes forethought, it would mean the mother hadn’t accessed any antenatal care, didn’t give birth in a hospital and the parent and child have never needed ANY medical attention. Not a situation easily orchestrated by the type of chaotic parents that the OP is referring to.

Letter for 7yo, no letter for 4yo.
Signs up at nursery though (would dependon reading ability.).
And in la booklets about recycling etc.
I bet some get confused because it is so early for say Aug kids (it closes before they are 3y4m.) Or if you have a sept and aug.

I suppose the system hopes that those who are not coping with life to that extent have been identified by social services & can get support that way.

Ha Ha Ha You have a very over optimistic view of the amount of social service funding there is out there.

If someone has such a chaotic life that they won't manage to sort application for a child to get into a school, I don't think they should have a custody of that child tbh.

Good grief, the naivety is astounding. This is part of a much bigger issue in the number of Parliamentarians making decisions for the country as a whole with having such little idea about the lives of so many.

I think if the parents life was quite as chaotic as being unable to fill in a form for a school place then they’re likely to already have social care and health visitor support in place to check these things are being done.
This really, really, really isn't the case AT ALL.

Health visitors are involved until the child reaches school age when the school nurse takes over. The HV asks if you have applied for schools at the pre-school check up so I think they would flag up any concerns with SS if necessary. If you don’t apply for a school, they just don’t go.
In my authority, there is a 'HV Team' - you don't have a named HV uless on Child Protection or Child in Need or an SEND Pathway. There is no-one with the capcity to go looking for dc that don't turn up to voluntary checks. The CCs used to track dc, but austerity cuts means there is no-one doing that anymore.
When it is discovered that a family haven't applied for a school place, it is nothing to do with Social Care - they don't have the staff to work at that level. The professional who uncovers the lack of application usually supports them to get in touch with school admissions. The LA has a responsibility to offer them a place somewhere in the authority. If they miss application date then that school might be nowhere near where the family live.

I think though it would be fairly easy to slip through.

Yes, it happens all the time.

To think parents lives are too chaotic to apply for a school place is frightening.

Yet incredibly common, and nowhere near level of Social Care involvement as so many posters seem to think.

Not registering your child with a GP and managing to evade any other contact with services in the early years is a very deliberate action and takes forethought, it would mean the mother hadn’t accessed any antenatal care, didn’t give birth in a hospital and the parent and child have never needed ANY medical attention. Not a situation easily orchestrated by the type of chaotic parents that the OP is referring to.

Not necessarily. Lots of families move regularly - often out of authority. So can give birth on one town but then move around, often quite often. Then they just don't get round to registering with t GP or HV. It's really common.

I am not talking about parents deliberately avoiding authorities, just those who struggle so never make an application. The kind of families for whom feeding and keeping kids clean is about as much as they can manage.

Not registering your child with a GP and managing to evade any other contact with services in the early years is a very deliberate action and takes forethought, it would mean the mother hadn’t accessed any antenatal care, didn’t give birth in a hospital and the parent and child have never needed ANY medical attention. Not a situation easily orchestrated by the type of chaotic parents that the OP is referring to.

I didn't say anything about not accessing antenatal care or giving birth in a hospital, but once the initial midwife and HV visits are over, if a family moves from the area in which ante and post natal care was delivered, there's no real way of them being traced. It's not been deliberate in the cases I've seen, just families who haven't needed the services or haven't stayed in one place long enough to register. Who would follow up those cases?

Ha Ha Ha You have a very over optimistic view of the amount of social service funding there is out there.*

hey BackforGood I didn't say that is how the system works! I said the system hopes...