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AIBU?

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Original poster

What happens to children starting school with chaotic parents?

172 replies

jennymanara · 27/09/2019 12:02

In England and Wales, what happens to kids whose parents have too chaotic a life to make a school application for their kids starting school, or do not have the level of literacy required to make a school application? Are children just automatically allocated any school?

OP posts:
couchparsnip · 27/09/2019 15:43

A friend of mine didn't apply because she was moving abroad. Her DS was still allocated a place at an undersubscribed local school because I guess she hadn't told the correct people she'd moved. It was a bit of a long commute from Australia so they didn't take up the place.

Number3or4 · 27/09/2019 15:50

I don't know about true chaotic life, but my cousin missed the school deadline by hours and then her dd was placed in the closet school with space. Thank you for this reminder op, I will pop it in my calendar now.

drowningincustard · 27/09/2019 16:27

I'm pretty sure in my borough it would be a while before it was noticed. We have had 1 health visitor visit since she was born. I vaguely recall a letter that we were invited to a 3 year health check (?) but it wasn't convenient and when I said I couldn't attend it - she said never mind, the file is now passing to the school nurse system (???). We have minimal gp involvement as I am lucky that the kids haven't needed gp attention. I guess there must be an MMR vaccination coming up but she turned 3 back in May so I really should follow up myself. I sorted out a nursery for her free 15 hours at the last minute after her 3rd birthday, but I can well imagine that if my life had descended into chaos in the last year or two and I just simply didn't search out a nursery or a school for next year that no one would follow up. My record would show all was fine at the 12 week check(?), I'm an experienced mum and that's it.
I am off now to see why she hasn't automatically been called for her MMR vaccination!!!

BackforGood · 27/09/2019 16:50

Exactly Flirtygirl

Every time there is a highly publicised tragedy, people wring their hands and ask how it could happen, but it is obvious how people fall through the net, when you have any involvement in the system, and you see how overstretched the agencies that haven't been cut completely, are.

myself2020 · 27/09/2019 17:04

We never applied for a school place for our oldest (on pre- application visits it became clear he couldn’t deal). nobody ever asked/requested any information
(he goes to a tiny private school that suits his needs in case anybody is alarmed. he’s in year 2 now

Nomorepies · 27/09/2019 17:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request.

Original poster
jennymanara · 27/09/2019 17:11

I am not defending it. I am saying parents who are struggling e.g. with depression etc, can put off applying because they can't deal with it.

And if you think that is neglect, you haven't seen anything.

OP posts:
myself2020 · 27/09/2019 17:12

@Nomorepies for example the person further up in the thread who’s brother was stillborn and mum in critical condition. or people who come from other countries where you are just allocated a space (including the scottish person above).
our lifes can become chaotic shockingly quickly!

Breathlessness · 27/09/2019 17:17

‘if you think that is neglect, you haven't seen anything.’

It is neglect but it’s far below the level of neglect required for social services involvement.

Original poster
jennymanara · 27/09/2019 17:18

It is someone struggling to cope.

OP posts:
Breathlessness · 27/09/2019 17:19

If you don’t meet your own needs, you’re struggling to cope. If you don’t meet the needs of a dependent your are neglecting them.

InglouriousBasterd · 27/09/2019 17:23

Ha, I had a friend like that. She wasn’t a terrible parent she was just a chaotic hippy who never knew what time it was. Her DD was constantly late for school and when they raised it, she threw an ‘unschooling’ hissy fit and now ‘hole schools’ her (she still can’t write at nearly 10)

Nomorepies · 27/09/2019 17:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request.

Original poster
jennymanara · 27/09/2019 17:36

But I am suggesting that that can be very good reasons. If I had had to apply for DCs to start school in the immediate aftermath of my brothers murder and his baby daughter, I am not sure I would have got the application in. At that point in my life getting everyone fed and clean was itself a struggle to do.

OP posts:
Caxx · 27/09/2019 17:41

I cant read and write but I have managed to get all my children into school, /nursery even managed to negotiate grammar school application and uni forms

tiggertogger · 27/09/2019 17:53

@Caxx can I ask if you can't read and write how you manage on this forum?

Mrsfrumble · 27/09/2019 18:28

We accidentally “slipped through the cracks” for a few years when we moved abroad. The children were 2.4 and 5 months old. I thought I’d called the GP surgery to let them know, but when we arrived back in the area with a 5 and 3 year old and I went to re-register, the receptionist told me we’d never been off their books!

My children missed essential immunisations, boosters and health / developmental checks in that time. We didn’t apply for a reception place for DS. Maybe people were trying to notify us. Obviously our mobile and landline numbers no longer worked, and our post was only redirected to my in-laws for a year or so. But it makes me realise how easily children can “disappear” and no authorities can track them.

stucknoue · 27/09/2019 18:46

To be honest most parents are quite keen to get their kids into school. Assuming they gave birth in the U.K. and have had vaccinations they will get a letter from the council. Getting kids to school on time is another problem but registering them seems to happen

lyralalala · 27/09/2019 19:06

Assuming they gave birth in the U.K. and have had vaccinations they will get a letter from the council.

That entirely depends on your council. Not all send letters.

And policies change over time. Letters for vaccinations and school start (& the nursery hours at 3) have changed between my 10yo and my 5yo. There are no letters here now for anything. I only realised both had changed that when I had to apply for DD3s school place and realised DD4 was due vaccinations round the same time. No letters for either now.

BackforGood · 27/09/2019 19:11

@stucknoue If you read the thread, it has been said many times on here that all councils don't send letters (even if the family haven't moved addresses)

@Nomorepies

Are you suggesting good parents ie they love their kids but are "struggling" would not apply to send their child to school? Surely this would only apply to someone with severe learning difficulties or parents who didn't give a shit?!

It happens to loads of children every year. I was talking to a CC Manager last year at about this time of year and they had 27 children they knew of that should have started Reception, with no school place. That's ONE CC, in ONE District (there are 10 Districts in our authority). That's just the ones they knew of, who;d got in touch with the CC. It happens a LOT that people don't apply for a place.

Charmatt · 27/09/2019 19:21

There are significant numbers of late applications made because parents don't realise there is a process or a deadline. That's why we chase it. It's more common than you think.

myself2020 · 27/09/2019 19:30

@stucknoue no letter for us. and he’s now in year 2 of an independent school. we never heard from anybody

ooooohbetty · 27/09/2019 19:35

If children are known to the LA and no application is received they are automatically allocated the nearest school with a place. It's not that unusual and not always the sign of being a chaotic parent. Some parents know and genuinely forget to apply. Some assume that they will automatically get a place if they already attend a nursery attached to the school. Wrong! Some parents just don't apply because they aren't bothered about which school they get. Health will also check that children known to them are in a school. Some people also report to the LA if they think a child isn't attending school. Not many fall through the net.

myself2020 · 27/09/2019 19:37

@ooooohbetty my kids are registered with the gp. we never applied for school places, no follow up, no school place allocation. never got asked about school.
its not hard to fall through the net

ooooohbetty · 27/09/2019 19:42

Also, if children who haven't applied and are automatically allocated a place don't turn up to take that place, this is passed to the children missing education department who follow up to find out where the child is and what's happening about their education. Our LA has a good system in place.