To tell her she's no longer a bridesmaid?

[Howaboutmeow]

NC as possibly outing, but been on MN for about 6 months now.
Getting married at the end of year. When we got engaged, I asked Sis to be a bridesmaid. We have a long, fractured history but I thought that it would be a way of putting the wheels in motion to repair things. Here's what's happened since:

1. Came to engagement party, but invited her friend then left after an hour to head to a nightclub instead. Didn't bring her children for the sole reason of not wanting to look after them, although she knew it was important for me to have them there to officially ask them to be a part of the wedding with other important guests.
2. Came wedding dress shopping and tried on a wedding dress (despite not having a boyfriend). I have a fractured history with Mum too, and hoped to feel special in my dress. Mum said the dress I've bought was nice (not that I looked nice in it..) and proceeded to gush over Sis and how incredible she looked, and how she'll be a perfect bride.
3. Told me to change bridesmaid dresses because she 'doesn't have the chest for them anymore' despite my other bridesmaids purchasing their dresses after prior agreement.
4. Fallen out with some important family members and has demanded that I change my seating plan to make sure she's nowhere near them.

It's been tearing me apart.

Sis now has a boyfriend. She's demanded that he be invited to the wedding, along with his four children- said they should be flower girls like my neice. I've only met him once in the year they've apparently been together (I say apparently as they've split up more than they've been together) and I've NEVER met his children. I don't even know their names!

There is absolutely no way that I will have his children there. But if he is invited, he will be stood there the entire day knowing nobody but Sis (if they're even together by then). I don't necessarily want her to be a bridesmaid anymore after the way she has acted, and if I'm honest I don't even want her to be there at all. She has a longstanding history of making important events in my life all about her- my graduation, our engagement, our party, and now trying it with our wedding. The only reason she's still on the guest list is because it's important to us that her children remain a part of our big day- my fiancé and I have a beautiful relationship with them and don't want them to be excluded because of her.

Hoping it would be a viable reason to no longer have her as a bridesmaid- AIBU to tell her if she wants her boyfriend there she will be a regular guest?

I can't stand people who make other people's important personal events all about them. I recently went to a funeral where someone did this. Too outing to go into but really quite appalling behaviour (trying to out-family the family basically).

So I would prepare myself for her trying to do this for the wedding itself and any of the build up. Find trusted friends who will 'handle' her if she kicks off. Ensure that everyone ignores her if she tries some dick move like getting bloke to propose on the day. Get someone to escort him and his children away if he tries to bring them.

I agree with PP about asking if she has bought the chosen dress yet and if she says no, say, okay that's fine if you don't want to be bridesmaid, but you and the children will still be part of my special day. If she still kicks off, then you may have to risk uninviting her and the children not coming as a consequence (she is bound to use them as a weapon).

Also prepare to have to manage your mother. Find some words you can use if she kicks off (how could u be so selfish/dsis is so upset etc). Your sister is like this because she's always been over-indulged and your mother is unlikely to stop now.

And finally, be resolved to not let anyone ruin your day. They don't have the power to actually ruin it, as you can choose not to indulge them. It's v hard to do this, but possible.

Good luck OP.

She sounds monstrous. I think people like that are best dealt with very directly.
I've decided to drop you as a bridesmaid. You haven't been supportive of me. You haven;t bought the dress or brought your children to an agreed meeting. You upstaged me when I tried on my wedding dress. I'm sick of it. You have tried to bully and manipulate me into accepting people into the bridal party who I hardly know. This day is about me and my fiance, not you and your new man;s 4 children. I don't want your behaviour to ruin my day. If you don;t want to be kind and supportive and helpful, that;s fine, but in that case, ditch the pretence and just come as a guest.
She'll huff and your mum will probably have a go, but all you need to say if she does, on repeat is: Mum, it's my day not hers.

She is trying to manipulate you into doing what she wants. You need to stand firm but also recognise this may mean she won't attend your wedding or allow her children to attend.

This happened to a friend of mine. Her DF insisted that she invite a random relative of her step mum to the wedding. Relative refused as numbers were tight and she had never met this person. She stuck to her guns and it ended up in a massive falling out with her dad, step mum and step sister all not attending the wedding. She was heart broken but she was entirely in the right and they were just being complete arses.

It was a mistake asking her to be a bridesmaid in an effort to repair your fractured relationship. A wedding is not the time to try and fix issues like this. She's shown you her true colours, she'll never change. Sack her. And I wouldn't be put out if she doesn't come to the wedding either, she sounds like a total misery.

If you're making her buy her own bm dress, then I'd say she should choose it, just as long as it's in similar style and colour. You shouldn't impose your rules and expect other people to pay for it. She'll want a dress she can wear for other occasions. Otherwise, pay for ALL bm dresses.

I don't see a problem with her wanting her bf there, although the 4 children is obviously too much.

I also can't see why you'd insist on seating people who don't get along next to each other anyway. She's not unreasonable there. You are.

Trying the dress is maybe not the best thing ever, but quite frankly, the wedding is the bride's day. Choosing a wedding dress should be fun for all, if you want an entourage on the occasion. This whole "the day is about me" thing seems very self centred to me. In any case, I'd say your mother was THE problem there.

Quite frankly, demote her all you like, but it seems to me that if your relationship is broken down you also have some role in it, as well as your mother. Is she her favourite child and usually excused and cooed over?

I vote for helpconfused123’s suggestion.
Keep your sister as a bridesmaid but she should wear the same as everyone and don’t have her with you on the morning. I would say no to both boyfriend and children, mainly because of possibility of him bringing his children if he’s invited.
By the way changing a seating plan if someone’s quarrelled is not a bad idea but you need to do it how you want it.
You definitely need to think long term so now it’s time to show your sister and your mum that you are polite but firm and stick to your guns. She doesn’t want her DC to come? well, you are very sad and disappointed but it’s her decision. Also be careful with vague answers it might lead to misunderstanding eg. I’m not sure about saying her that you’d look at numbers later for inviting her BF. She might say that you promised her and she told him already. From the other side outright “no” will look a bit strange. Say that you’ll think about it but that’s all.
I also would stick to the same version for your mum and sister in details, the real reasons are for you and your fiancée only.

Your sister trying on a bride's dress and your mum gushing over it but not at yours is awful!

I didn't expect to wake up to so many responses.. Makes a change from reading the morning news!

Sorry for not responding to individual usernames but I'll try responding to general themes within comments.

1. Sis does have a 'me me me' attitude and has lived her life thinking that the world owes her a favour. She knew the plan that we had to ask her children to be flower girls at our engagement party, as we were with the rest of our bridal party. Told us they would 100% be there, 'bought outfits for them to come' and then turned up without them, knowing it would upset me on the night.

1. Trying on a dress in someone else's fitting has always been a massive no. I thought this was a widespread rule of weddings? Maybe I'm wrong but..

1. She tried the dress on KNOWING how badly I wanted approval from DM. Just to be told I look nice for once, or something. Didn't think it was too much to ask for, but it clearly was. MIL was in tears when she saw me in the dress, and she made me feel EXACTLY how I wanted DM to make me feel.

1. I 'asked' her to be a bridesmaid as she simply assumed she was one after we announced our engagement. I thought it was in everyone's best interest to let her have her way at the time. I guess I opened the gate to a slippery slope and have nobody but myself to blame really.

1. Yes, bridesmaids are paying for their own dresses. This wasn't my plan- we have so much room in our budget to cover this- and I simply asked my bridesmaids to look for some dresses they liked so that we could decide together. We collectively agreed on one- and I mean ALL of them said they loved this one dress, when I asked for their sizes so that I could purchase them, they were actually shocked when I said I was paying for them. They aren't expensive dresses (under £40 each) but my bridesmaids reluctantly agreed that I could pay for hair, makeup, accessories and shoes.

1. I didn't have her seated near family she's fallen out with anyway, and she knew this. However, she wants me to rearrange the seating plan so that the family she does like is near her, and not them (wants me to push these members to the back, basically).

1. It's the DEMANDING that is getting to me. It's not 'is there any chance I have a +1?' or 'can DP please come to your wedding day?'.. it's the 'DP will being me to your place to get ready, then he'll go pick his DC up and meet us at the venue' attitude that I despise. She originally didn't have a +1 because I thought that as a bridesmaid she would be busy, and like I said, I have met this guy once in the year they've been together. I didn't think that warranted an invitation to our wedding and it just makes me uncomfortable having a stranger there.

(And apparently I can't count.. there was no 6..)

You have clear choice.

Stand firm and have the wedding of your dreams even if this means your dns are not flower bearers, or allow your sister to rule the day and taint your memories of it.

You have to drastically lower your expectations of both your sister and your mother. Your sister is certainly not going to change her behaviour towards you because you are getting married. She has already shown that she resents the attention and your mother continues to enable her.
Did you say anything to your mother when she kept saying how amazing your sister looked trying on wedding dresses and her lukewarm praise of yours. It could be that she was trying to make your insecure sister feel better - a crap way to do that, but maybe it wasn't meant as a slur on you. You should talk to her about how she made you feel. However you say you have a fractured relationship with her as well.
Under those circumstances.. why did you have them both at your wedding dress session. I understand that you thought it was a nice thing to do and you thought they would drop their gripes and be supportive and its one of those traditions which is supposed to bring you all closer together. But you know what they are like. You can't trust either of them. This is what I mean by lowering expectations and thinking about who would really have been reliable and helpful. If you lower expectations and manage your interactions with them - they won't get as much chance to behave hurtfully. This pattern is never going to stop until you stop expecting them to step up.
Think about who is nice and supportive to you and get them more involved. These are the people you should be talking to about the wedding.
Quietly disengage involving DSis and DM in any more planning, arrangements or advice and play the whole thing as low key with them. Otherwise its like giving them a say in how it all works and derails you. You decide how things will go and inform them if they ask.. that their advice is wonderful, but you were under pressure to decide on napkins or whatever so you went ahead, how you wished you'd had time to consult them etc. but you can see how valuable their input is. etc..
Its your choice to put your foot down about the bridesmaids issue or you could try to play it a bit more diplomatically so that your Sis feels she's had her fun interfering and changing plans.
You could try listening attentively to the nonsense and smilling and nodding and then just doing exactly what you were going to do in the first place. "That's a really good idea but I've already ordered the xyz." Or "I completely understand about the Bridesmaids dresses and how they all look identical. I didn't think ahead that as my sister - you ought to be able to stand out from the crowd. Maybe it would be better if you just went ahead and got a really glamourous outfit that you know you will look fantastic in...you could be my "best woman or other title" , I can have a special coursage made for you and you will stand out from the rest of the wedding party and everyone will know you have a special role." hand her a coursage booklet and let her spend a lot of time choosing.. if this works, she's no longer bridesmaid without an energy draining showdown. She still feels involved in the wedding but doesn't get to constantly throw your Bridesmaids arrangements off track.
I think as a close family member, its very difficult to deny her a plus one. He might even be helpful as a means of distracting her... as someone else said delay the extra children issue.. by talking about numbers etc. I do take @greenlynx's point about being very clear about things that are non negotiable and not allowing her to say that you promised her.
As to your flower girls.. Say it outright.. "I'm sure you don't mean it.. but that sounds like blackmail. I want your DC there, If you are willing to deny my niece's a part in a family wedding to force me to involve children I have never even met that is your decision. Continue as if they are coming.

Keep reminding her that you are paying for the wedding. Not her and not your mother and that you will not be going over your budget.
Seating plan: "I agree, you won't have to sit next to X." change subject. Don't let either of them get involved in the seating plan.."Oh.. sorry.. I'm still working on it. It will be OK on the day." Walk back from discussing any real details.
This softly softly approach whilst at the same time being determined to plan your wedding as you wish might work. If it doesn't you always have the alternative of putting your foot down. Moving forward, you are entering into a new phase of your life where your new husband becomes the most important person and you should think about a way to manage your relationship with Sis and DM in a way that works for you. Congrats btw!

Tell her that her children are such an important part of your day that you feel it would be too much for her to be bridesmaid aswell. You'd be a lot happier knowing she's helping them get ready and being with them.

So sorry this is happening on your special day arrangements. I honestly think whatever you do she will carry on making ur time miserable. The reason bring as your the centre of attention and not her. If you say no she will kick off if you say to her demands she will make more. If I was you I would tell her the dress is decided. So wear it or do not be a bridesmaid. The seating plan is sorted. Her partner can come but not the children. Then leave her to it. Try and focus on your day. You are allowing her to ruin things. Don’t let her.
I hope all goes well. 💐

No no and no again.... just once have a day for you. Anyone (inc your sis and mum), who is making it unpleasant, simply sack them off.

It's your and your df's day, please surround yourself with people who love and want the best for you.

This is the very reason I got married in a registry office with no one I knew (2 witnesses from the library)

My SIL was like this. You just have to accept there is nothing you can do to mend the fences on your own. You’ve tried your best to offer an olive branch and now she wants the whole tree, because she sees it as a sign she’s “won” and you’ll bend over backwards.

Demote her, stand firm. If she flounces out of attending too, that’s her decision.

And just let the relationship fall away after the wedding.

Your wedding, your choice. Sit her down and say how demanding she is being. She can either shut up & go along with your plans,or don't bother attending. Don't let anyone guilt you in to doing what SHE wants... it is you and your fiance's day...

FUCK NO!!! tell her to swivel, and No she's is not being a Bridesmaid because you know the Wedding Day will become ALL about Her and your Mum. Do not be stupid OP, nip this in the bud NOW.

Stop this right now, HELL give me her number I'll tell her to PISS OFF.

I am NC with my DSis and DM.
Best thing I ever did.

My in laws are lovely and I don't have to deal with those toxic people anymore.

You can't choose your family.

Cut them out and move on to a better life without!

One of the core disappointments brides have about their weddings is not being firm enough with people making demands. Parents p, guest list and your sister all fall into this.

Just have the conversation someone else suggested and say you don’t feel enough support from her to be a bridesmaid. And if she kicks off, smile and point out it’s exactly that: it’s about your day and not about her.

I'd still have her there, because you can't invite her children and not have their mum there. It'll cause issues. Try and ignore her?... She sounds like a nightmare though you have my sympathy.

I think you need to be quite careful here.

She will ruin your day if you don't handle this the right way. Unfortunately, reasing your posts, I honestly think the only way to make sure that she doesn't ruin the day is for her not to be there at all. And the only way to do that is to piss her off so that she refuses to come - so that she thinks she's in control.

If you say no kids of the DP but allow him to come, you'll have sulks and pointed shit all day.

If you let them all come, he'll probably propose to her (his kids not being there is one way to possibly make sure that doesn't happen - he might not want to propose without them there).

If she stays bridesmaid even if you don't piss her off, she will probably ruin it in some way, or several ways.

She sounds absolutely horrible and the dynamic is terrible.

Tell her you don't want her as a bridesmaid and you don't want her DP's kids there or even him much really.

Let her kick off and not come.

What Pusheen and MollyButton said.

Spot on. You will NEVER get approval out of your mother and your sister will never stop being a demanding bullying bitch.

I'd be willing to place a wager with William Hill that she will use your wedding no matter what you do. She's at all there and she will do the following: bring her boyfriend and his kids, doesn't matter what you say, she doesn't give a shit about you; cause friction and drama with the family members she's already pissed off; upstage your entire day with a public proposal. She will do anything to fuck up your day because she thinks the world revolved around her, you, the dog of the family, are not allowed to have anything special and any attempt to do so is an invitation to her to fuck it up to put you in your place.

Sadly, unless you disinvite her and accept her taking off with her kids and your sorry arse excuse for a mum, you can expect she will completely hijack your wedding.

Siblings and parents like this burn me up. They don't deserve a sister and daughter like you.

Have you had the conversation with your sister @Howaboutmeow? Broken the news to her?

Have your own wedding your own way. I had my mother’s wedding first time round - big mistake.
My bridesmaid did try on Wedding dresses at my fitting second time round and I did at hers! We were both getting married at a similar time so it was good fun for us. We are both very different body shapes so no risk of wanting the same dress!
Your sister seems to be making your wedding about her. Please don’t let her