Cultural appropriation

[Newbiemumsy66]

So this is a term which seems to be used a lot more these day (to my knowledge). I am a white woman and before I start, I am genuinely interested in the definition and especially hearing from those who feel their culture is appropriated.

My understanding is that it is deemed offensive when people (especially white people as we are/were generally an oppressive bunch) steal, wear, eat, cook elements from different cultures. I understand that it is often the case that these things are done disrespectfully, which of course is totally wrong. However, why isn’t it ok for a white woman to wear corn rows because she really likes the style for example? Surely doing something like that shows respect for another culture and shows that it’s a good thing to embrace our differences. Also why is it then not offensive for black people to straighten their hair such as their European counterparts natural hair? Surely everything is appropriated from everywhere in one way or another - it’s a positive step forward for inclusivity and to embrace one another’s differences in a good way. Surely by keeping these traditions within specific races only breeds further segregation?

Apologies if my post is tone deaf or not worded particularly sensitively, but it is just something that I feel I need educating on if my opinion comes from a place of privilege and is ill informed. I mean no offence, so please don’t reply with hate, if I’m wrong tell me why.

I’m not comparing them, just giving examples of other songs which can be used at celebrations forevermore.

Hi Let me start by Stating that I am a black Women and I believe that there is nothing wrong with incorporating influences from other cultures into your life I think it’s insanity to try to police what people can wear eat say etc based on the moral sensibilities of a few. The sharing of cultures has historically led to cultural advancements it should be celebrated! Many cultures profit from sharing their cultures with people look at all the Chinese, Indian Afro Caribbean restaurants there are should these people go out of business because people are offended. I have braided hair for many of my white friends and have been more than happy to do so. 🙂

@Mini2017
Erm, good for you then

sakura "it is a garment that is respected and when you have somebody not from that culture wearing one just because they want to then it offensive"

I still don't understand why.

It's funny; before the CA business started, I would have described myself as being offended very easily, but stuff like what you have said just baffles me. They are clothes. If someone wore a sari to a fancy dress party I would be annoyed, because I would say it's just clothes, it's not an outfit. but if someone just fancies wearing a sari, why not?

also, are you that person who would see a white person wearing a sari and just assume they had no connections to a sari - I mean whatever connection you consider acceptable? If so, why would you assume that?

Chaos "The sharing of cultures has historically led to cultural advancements it should be celebrated! "

exactly what my mum and (now deceased) dad would say.

@Passthecherrycoke

Yes, but in the case of R Kelly he knew what he was doing when he released those songs, which wouldn't be out of the ordinary for Ed or Robbie.

Personally, I struggle to listen to any song by R Kelly anymore, despite the longevity. God I loved belting out the beginning of Bump n Grind. But I have friends who still listen to him, so it's a personal choice.

Anyway, this R Kelly thing isn't on topic for CA, so let me stay in my (maybe soon to be blocked ) corner

Dreadlocks have been worn by nearly every culture at some point in time or another. Roman accounts stated that the Celts wore their hair ‘like snakes’. The Germanic tribes and Vikings were also known to wear their hair in dreadlocks. Dreadlocks have been worn by the monks of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, the Nazarites of Judiasm, Qalandri’s Sufi’s, the Sadhu’s of Hinduism, and the Dervishes of Islam, and many more! (ragingrootsstudio.com/the-history-of-dreadlocks/)

The idea that one group of people can lay claim to a certain style or characteristic and no one else can lay claim to it without being offensive is bonkers imo and creates more division in an already divided society.

This discussion also centres a lot on white people appropriating bame aspects but culture has no race. I've a friend who's white Ghanaian, to say it's not ok for him to wear a tradional smock because he's white but it would be acceptable for a black American to do is far more racist than any CA claim.

My daughter is half black therefore more “African” than you daughter will ever be

I don't understand this, how you can judge based on skin colour. If a black child with African heritage is more "African" than a light skinned child with African heritage, then this seems to based on the idea that the original inhabitants of Africa were black, so they are more valid as Africans, yet if someone were to say "My child is white and therefore more European than your child will ever be" about a black child who is European, it would be seen as prejudiced. Are white South Africans not allowed to call themselves "African" because they aren't black and therefore never originated there historically?

I've a friend who's white Ghanaian

And I have a black British friend, historically family came from Jamaica, but they don't know anything about Jamaican culture and don't identify in any way as Jamaican, the culture and way if life they identify with is British - so why can't a white kid identify with where they were born/grew up? Because people associate race/colour and culture/community/nationality too much.

My daughter is half Mexican. I've even done her DNA and she's 1/4 native American. Some snowflake on FB got offended because she was wearing a traditional Mexican gown but looks like Goldilocks. Ethnicity/cultural heritage go beyond looks.

I went into a bagel shop recently and found they no longer sell my favourite chopped herring bagel. there were however chicken tikka and jerk chicken fillings on offer..

Which culture has appropriated which I wonder?

@SleepyHiraeth

Yes, that was the point I was making. Race and culture are separate but most of these discussions focus on the race aspect.

The idea that one group of people can lay claim to a certain style or characteristic and no one else can lay claim to it without being offensive is bonkers imo and creates more division in an already divided society.

But did black people actually lay claim to it or was it assumed by their oppressors that that was part of their culture since it was different from their (European) own.

Rainbowhairdontcare My daughter is half Mexican. I've even done her DNA and she's 1/4 native American. Some snowflake on FB got offended because she was wearing a traditional Mexican gown but looks like Goldilocks. Ethnicity/cultural heritage go beyond looks.

I got told I "cant' be half Chinese because you don't look it". I've dyed my hair dark blond so presumably I'm culturally appropriating my European heritage? There are so many stereotypes about rigid classifications that its such a minefield, its better not to comment at all except in the case of obvious offensive stuff. DNA analysis shows a lot of Scandinavians have quite a high portion of North Asian heritage, particularly in the Far North, as do the Finns, but to many people they are just blonde, blue eyed stereotype white people. Its so offensive.

CA is being used too often as a means of making someone's own racial background somehow more important and more worthy than other people's.

I was really offended by the remarks made to me on here in another thread that I couldn't understand racism because I was half Chinese and not half black. So, so offensive. In other words - just put up and shut up - not important enough.

@flirtygirl
“Some other cultures have always celebrated a big bum, a bigger frame and curves. So no a big bum is not ugly on all woman. Check your privilege.”

WTF? You agree with my post regarding WESTERN CULTURE and then go off on a random tangent about other cultures and tell me to “check my privilege”? Sorry but you need to check your reading comprehension.

The easiest example I can think of is the CA of the bhindi in the 90s. I remember seeing Gwen Stefani wear one and then every white girl was wearing one with their low-rise combats. I wore them. I had no idea of the cultural significance of them, and I’d never wanted to wear one before they were on white women on MTV. I’m really embarrassed about it now.

You see this is where I am so confused by the issue.

I was brought up heavily involved in my nanas and grandad culturea. Different cultures. Then theres my dads quite distinctive heritage. I dont look like I actually belong to any of the expectations of these cultures.

The fact that I look white with pale skin but dark eyes and black hair, makes me less Indian that someone whose grandfather is indian. Am I more indian if the look more Indian but I have been brought up in the culture more?

I was born in Ireland. Is that the culture I am more of? Even though I moved to engalnd when I was 2?

I really dont like the phrase 'i am more than you'

14:02 Buccanarab

Yes I was agreeing with you sorry it that was u clear

Why isn’t some of this stuff positive? Why isn’t it a good thing for white women to wear cornrows and be celebrated for big bums? Doesn’t it just normalise things and make it easier for POC to wear / dress / highlight those things too?

“Doesn’t it just normalise things and make it easier for POC to wear / dress / highlight those things too?”

What because white people say it’s ok now? What a world

@QualCheckBot - People of mixed race (especially if one race is white) often have different struggles than people who aren’t. Often see this in my Indian family - those with light eyes and skin or who pass for white never experienced the ‘go back to where you’re from’ racism that my brother and I did; they didn’t experience the colourism I did amongst our own race; and in many cases they were often held up as good looking just because they could pass for white (by everyone no matter their race).

queen
That message is basically "when YOU did it, it was a topic of judgement and ridicule, but now the nice white people have ok-ed it and decided it's cool and actually alright then it's now accepted and normalised, because the power of whiteness has legitimised it"

I think it can become an issue for people of the oppressed race /ethnicity when the adoption of the cultural signifier (hair, dress, skin tone) become performative. When the white person is using them to play a part, sometimes that "part" perpetuates negative stereotypes about the oppressed race /ethnicity. For example, when racially privileged white teenagers not only adopt the "look" of black teenagers but also what they perceive to be the language and mannerisms of black teenagers. The problems are that these are damaging stereotypes and that the white child can "take off" the ethnic signifiers to retain their privilege.

Honestly I do not get the big bum thing as even being remotely CA because it is biology as to whether you are born with a big bum or not. Big bums do exist on white people you know. Most white Anglo Saxons are pear shaped (small boobs, big bum).

Right, but the alternative which is cultural appropriation is telling the white people they’re not allowed to dress a certain way or do their hair a certain way. Which just keeps things black and white. Surely it’s better to try and drop the barriers