To ask if SAHM on benefits also have it hard

[Tryinghardereveryday]

I am not generalising, making assumptions or trying to offend.

This morning a was taking LO to nursery,
Which costs me a fortune. I am considered to have a good wage and I work FT. I own my own home.

A woman was walking her dog with her children. She lives in a council house, Her home is identical to mine.She’s single and doesn’t work. I am assuming she is in receipt of benefits.

I thought what’s the point of working so hard... I get limited time with DD whilst she gets to see her children full time. If I don’t work my home gets repossessed. I pay council tax, childcare fees and receive no financial help with anything.

Am I better off than those who have financial help? Does working FT provide me with a better lifestyle? This woman is not struggling. She also claims free childcare. A part from my annual holiday away (which I am grateful for) I don’t think I have anything more than she does and I don’t think that’s completely worth it.
The good thing about working is the contribution to my pension. But poorer older people also get additional assistance. Very few of us will get to pass inheritance to our children as our equity (anything above £23000) will possibly be used to pay for our care in old age.

I’m just feeling down and thinking what’s the point in working so hard. This is not an attack on this woman. It’s at the government, we live in a country where sometimes working does not pay for middle rate earners and we are constantly told it does.

@vampirethriller

They take out a lot more than they pay in though.

You have to earn 35k a year to be a contributing, not taking.

You have to earn 35k a year to be a contributing, not taking.

As a matter of interest, on nmw that's just shy of 90 hours a week, or 7 X 13 hour days, every day, every week. No day off.

You know it's interesting that this has turned the way all benefits threads tend to go on here, when a similar one where the OP said someone with their own business and living an MC lifestyle was also claiming TC - it barely hit 3 pages and a lot of the posts were people defending it because apparently they're putting in, so they can take out, entitled or not. As I said on that thread, seems it's ok if you're an MC business owner, no expectations to be socially responsible there. Only if you can't make ends meet without benefits are you expected to be socially responsible and are you apparently a scrounger.

The idea is that those who can contribute do contribute. It applies to the NHS too. I have no issue with this but it pisses me off when people say that people on benefits are paying their own way - they aren’t.

Well I can hardly contribute as much as someone on £3 when my income is less than £5,000 a year.
I worked from age 14 until I lost my job last year while pregnant, nobody would employ me because I was pregnant and then my ex left. I didn't plan this, don't like it and like being told I'm scrounging even less. I hate knowing what people are thinking when they look at me and my daughter.

*£35k, not £3..!

@vampirethriller

The benefits system is there for those that need it. No issues with that from me. However, implying that those living on benefits are contributing more than they take out is incorrect.

I didn't say they contribute more than they take though, just that they do contribute.
Trouble is you can't always tell by looking who needs it and who doesn't and we all get judged as the same.

I was a sahm on benefits for 18 months after separating from my ex. I had to budget well but it was manageable. What wasn't manageable, was affording childcare for one child in school and two preschoolers to enable me to work. School hours jobs are extremely hard to come by, and living rurally meant I had to pay for an hour or more childcare each end of the working day to allow for the commute, which I simply couldn't afford. I was stuck in a situation I couldn't change until they were older.

I'm grateful we didn't starve for sure but I don't think I did anything wrong by not working during that time. It was the right thing for my family and I claimed what the government said I was entitled to.

As soon as the middle one started school I did an Access course, then went to uni the same year the youngest started school. Now I'm in a position where I will have a professional career and therefore will claim considerably less benefits for the rest of their childhoods.

@Mackerz

But I don't think anyone said that people on benefits are paying their own way? Vampire said people on benefits pay tax - they do, I'm one, I pay tax. The tax I pay goes towards the NHS as well as other things - but I don't start demanding to know why people access the services it offers, or judge them on whether I think it's a suitable use of 'my tax money'. It's only with benefits, and that includes disability and in work benefits, people seem to have that attitude. If my employer suddenly put my wages up tomorrow so I didn't need TC, you, or anyone else wouldn't pay less tax. The same as if someone stops using the NHS and goes private, I wouldn't pay less tax.
It's only with benefits that 'tax payers' feel they have the right to slam those in receipt of tax payers money and demand justification. That's probably why people like me do point out that we pay tax too.

As someone on UC, working, and with DC in childcare, I would financially be slightly better off at the moment if I didn’t work. But long term I’m better off working.

But once your child reaches 3 (I believe) on UC, you have work commitments and have to be working a certain number of hours per week or you are ‘sanctioned’ Which lasts up to three years. It’s a really horrible system, I was previously in a Facebook group for universal credit and SO many people were really struggling. For example, if an employer pays you a day or two early, it can mean your income comes up as double for that particular ‘assessment period’ and you get no financial help, even though the second pay obviously has to go toward the next months rent/bills.

FWIW even if I wasn’t working at the moment, I’d still be paying council tax - it’s just reduced.

The 15 hours free childcare for the two year olds is also not meant to benefit the parent, it’s meant to bridge the gap for the child who is statistically at a disadvantage if they meet the criteria for two year old funding.

There have been several times where I genuinely can not afford food and my parents have had to help us out - if we didn’t have this help we’d have struggled much more. And a lot of people on benefits don’t have that financial backup. The instability is really unpleasant - for example if something breaks, we simply don’t have one of those things anymore. Any unexpected cost which hasn’t been budgeted for causes problems.

Personally I do think the free nursery hours should also be available for working parents of two year olds - maybe the 30 funded hours kicking in a year earlier - but it isn’t a race to the bottom, and it’s shame to draw negative attention to disadvantaged children being entitled to that childcare already (although just 15 hours).

Bit tired so sorry if this post is jumbled!

@Liverbird77. Yes I am sure you have paid into the system but you also take a lot out of the system through the NHS and education. You shouldn’t think you are ‘entitled’ to anything.

I think with a lot of these discussions it's not just a case of how much money comes in but how manageable the income is. Unemployed on benefits you may be poor but you know how poor you are going to be each month and can try to budget for it, with zero hours insecure work, poor childcare provision etc you need to have a pretty decent buffer or someone who can step in and help you out or you could run into financial trouble.

I could totally understand why someone wouldn't want to take the risk of an insecure work situation in return for a small increase in income (well except for those months your zero hours employer doesn't need you much)

Actually, every person who is a British citizen is entitled to fee healthcare. Those that can’t support themselves should be entitled to a safe and warm place to live too. This is a marker. Of a civilised society and I have no issue with my taxes going to these things.

I have an issue with people on benefits claiming they are financially contributing to society when they aren’t.

I was feeling the same when my DC's were at nursery - but I knew I was in it for the long run and it is massively paying off now.
I've managed to climb the career ladder and am now on a comfortable wage, and have no childcare costs.

At the same time I see the fellow mums, the SAHM's I was a bit jealous of, struggling now. Some have divorced, and are now having to start from scratch career wise, and others are starting to go back to work anyway but are again having to start in lower paid jobs.

And as for people receiving benefits (myself included for a while when I had to rely on tax credits to top my wages up), these will end one day. Once your children grow up and you lose child benefit, I believe you no longer entitled for other benefits either. And that day you will be happy for all the grafting you are doing now!

I do not think they have it as hard, no.
My neighbour is the same as the woman you mentioned, she gets free childcare despite having no responsibilities, spends an absolute fortune on alcohol and cigarettes, has a nice car just a few years old and has the freedom to do whatever she wants. Council pays for all repairs and upgrades including paying for a locksmith when she's drunk and loses her keys.

I work a job which requires a 5hr (at least) daily commute, am short of money, could never afford to be able to smoke it drink even if I wanted to, only recently could afford driving lessons and got a 20yr old car from my gran for free as I can't afford to buy anything. I previously had to terminate a pregnancy as I knew I couldn't afford to bring up the child well. I'm now pregnant again and will still struggle but my DP has had a wage rise so it's not as much of a struggle this time. Childcare costs will almost bankrupt us most likely. Can't do necessary repairs on my house as I just can't afford to.

Whose life sounds better?

How can they have it hard when they don’t work?

I worry more about the children. Pupil premium has to exist for a reason, statistics show that children in this category fare less well. So I think the children have it harder and many won’t break the cycle as adults as children tend to copy their role models.

I love this benefit bashing, there are some people who are obviously taking the mickey but benefits are there for a reason. Life sounds easy when you have “choices” that are provided by a steady income.

I always supported myself well and was a bit judgemental on the “easy life” people on benefits get... until I found myself there.

Benefits entitlement are a fragile thing too. Sometimes taking a 2 week job to help yourself can cut them off and they won’t be re instated for months after your temporary job ended.

This is going to be a cyclical argument. Forever. Or until you can accurately separate and label the lazy free-loaders who use "entitled" every other word from the people who are in need of help in a way that everyone agrees upon and without affecting children. And that's not likely.

The NHS us free at point of use. It's not free. It's publicly funded. Not free! And needs protecting.

You can’t pay tax if you’re on full benefits because you never earned the money in the first place . You’re just moving money around .

I’m glad there are benefits to help those who through no fault of their own can’t work. However , if you can’t work then I don’t think you should be supported to have children . We don’t need hopeless people having children , it becomes a vicious circle of crap parenting and damaged children . I do realise there are exceptions but not enough to just let society pick up all the pieces .

There’s a reason we should aim to follow a predetermined path in life.Old fashioned or not there’s a lot to be said for:
Dating, education, engagement, marriage, house , children. Crap men wouldn’t have the opportunity to become crap fathers if the daft women didn’t go near them. I understand that you cannot always predict how life goes but come on- some people don’t even try !

And everyone all has a sad story to cover for their lack of judgement . Best one is “ I can’t afford to work because I’m not trained for anything and would only earn minimum wage and the cost of childcare blah lab blah “
Well yes ! did you not think about that before you had children - you weren’t educated then either ! Oh right !you want to go back to university now and the tax payer will pay for it and your childcare so that in 3/4/5 years/ the future you can get a better job ? Feck that ! You had the same opportunity as everyone else to do that at 18. That ship has sailed .

Oh right !you want to go back to university now and the tax payer will pay for it and your childcare so that in 3/4/5 years/ the future you can get a better job ? Feck that ! You had the same opportunity as everyone else to do that at 18. That ship has sailed .

Actually, not everyone has that opportunity at 18. Are you that ignorant to other people's situations?

And everyone all has a sad story to cover for their lack of judgement . Best one is “ I can’t afford to work because I’m not trained for anything and would only earn minimum wage and the cost of childcare blah lab blah “

I know I'm the minority, but is have a Hons degree and an MA and still only get £18k... Why? Well because there are no jobs for my skillset where I live. There simply isn't a a need for someone with my degrees who's fluent in 3 languages. My employer oddly enough can make the most of it, but I'd never make beyond £30k and that's a long way from the £18k currently making.

No, working is often not worth it OP but that is what you get from the "fetishisation" of work. And you are probably not better off financially, physically or emotionally than this woman. The Government relies on there being people like you to keep "doing the right thing" so that there are taxes to pay for those who don't. The more people who realise that it is a big con the more likely society will need to change.

What reasons might those be Bangin that were not of the 18 year olds making ?

That’s a shame Rainbow . I’m sure you planned your family accordingly.

I have been both. I now work full time and pay a mortgage.

Prior when the kids were little I worked 16 hours, rented and got tax credits. I am on 28k now and got the same amount in pay as I did then with the tax credits.

Tax credits are stopping so I'm not sure what it's like now, I know back then I would have been worse off working more than 16 hrs.