To feel uncomfortable with regards to Drag?

[ShawshanksRedemption]

Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable with Drag?

AIUI Drag came about because women's roles were originally played by men on the stage, and from there it's evolved to have pantomime dames, which is a caricature of women. Drag has now become an art form, a performance, with programmes like RuPaul's Drag Race showing how popular it is, but at it's core it's still a caricature, it's still a parody of women, and it's gaudy, brash and the wit and put downs waspish!

I can't help but feel a bit uncomfortable about it all, maybe it's something I'm reading too much into, but effectively it's men aping women in a very unattractive way (and I'm not just talking the make up here).

Anyone else feel the same? Or should I just embrace it and get over myself?

Yes I can see how you would, there is a certain type of person who doesn’t like it when women have their own mind and form their own opinions.

I am reminded of Catherine Tate's character, Derek Faye. A woman pretending to be a gay man in an extremely stereotypical way. A brash parody of a homosexual man. I assume he is just as offensive as a drag queen...

Where do you draw the line? Should men be allowed to express any femininity? Wear heels, dresses or makeup? Would it all be okay if they kept masculine names and male pronouns and so weren't pretending to be a woman?

Remember Little Britain and David Walliams?

I have never personally seen a drag act that mocks women. Can anyone link to an example?

The jokes tend to be at the expense of the artist being flamboyant or more feminine as a gay man, rather than laughing at women per say. It harks back to homosexuality being illegal and gay men using drag as a safer way to communicate.

Calling drag womanface feels quite wrong to me. Blackface mocks the physical characteristics of black people, and was popular during a period of massive disadvantage and oppression of nlack people. While feminism has more work to do, I don't think the modern patriarchy quite compares.

There used to be a drag club in Soho that's now closed, as a woman I'd never felt so safe on a night out. Not a bum groper in sight!

Where do you draw the line? Should men be allowed to express any femininity? Wear heels, dresses or makeup? Would it all be okay if they kept masculine names and male pronouns and so weren't pretending to be a woman?

Why is wearing heels, dresses and makeup 'expressing femininity'? Is that what femininity boils down to?

Perhaps if we all did away with the notion that woman = heels & lippie all this nonsense would stop, too.

By the way, I'm a sucker for a man in a dress. Bowie and Brian Molko in frocks look beautiful. What I object to is the grotesque, misogynist caricaturing of women.

@GibbonLover the Catherine Tate character was deeply unpleasant, yes.

However. A gay man is still a man. Never in the course of human history have men been oppressed by women. Drag mimics - in the most grotesque fashion - the oppressed by the oppressor. Another of the things it has in common with blackface, incidentally.

And to compare it to blackface? Are you fucking kidding me?

Drag has its roots in blackface.

It's also an example of an oppressed group being grotesquely parodied by its oppressor, much like blackface.

I genuinely wonder why drag gets any traction at all. Men dressing up as parodies of women, aping their stereotypical characteristics - whether you think it’s offensive or not surely it’s pretty low level entertainment, unless combined with real wit.
As for beautiful - god help you. Get out more.

I agree. I hate it too for all the reasons mentioned above.

You're reading too much into it. It's usually a comedy act or tribute act where they sing (Judy, Marilyn, Cher etc). If it's more their lifestyle & a fashion thing like Jeffree Starr the make up artist, Ru Paul etc, so what. And Les Dawson's very funny 'Sissy & Ada' drag sketches were an affectionate celebration of the working class women he was raised by. There was no mysogny there. Same with Paul O'Grady's wickedly funny 'Dolly'.

@mymonkeysmycircus you asked how drag is offensive to women. The pride list of “funniest” drag queen names include “phallic cunt” Avery Goodlay” “Anna B Frank” “Molestia Child” “Lucy Stoole”

www.pride.com/dragqueens/2018/5/17/18-funniest-drag-queen-names

There was an interview with RuPaul in the paper at the weekend. I only skimmed it - as mentioned I find drag unleavened by wit immensely boring - but it was interesting that when asked whether he would ever have a female participant, he had no answer,
I think I know what the reason is.
Anyway, won’t be watching his crappy little programme. There’s paint to watch dry and sick drawers to organise, after all

YANBU
I hate it too for the reasons already stated

Sick drawers? Hmm. Don’t actually have those but if I did, I would definitely organise them in preference to watch RuPaul.

Why? Is it because Mrs Brown isn’t playing the ‘sexy’ woman face? If the man in drag is unattractive and playing a dowdy, middle aged woman, that’s wrong?Why? Is it because Mrs Brown isn’t playing the ‘sexy’ woman face? If the man in drag is unattractive and playing a dowdy, middle aged woman, that’s wrong?

No, because it's deeply deeply unfunny and portraying a stereotypical attitude towards woman and families (and the Irish) far worse than any of the "glam acts" do. You can be as dowdy or middle aged or fat or bearded as you want, I've no problem with that but I do have a problem with absolute tripe being masqueraded as comedy.

How do you guys cope with just life in general if you’re offended by every little thing?

I can’t even remember the last time I felt offended!

*How do you guys cope with just life in general if you’re offended by every little thing?

I can’t even remember the last time I felt offended!*

First of all, congratulations on remaining unbothered and unaffected by all the inequality in the world. Must be a lovely, fuzzy, 'offence'-free bubble to live in.

Secondly, it's not about being 'offended by every little thing'. It's about being thoroughly pissed off by misogyny and the general denigration of women in society, which bizarrely, some women choose to be complicit with.

I don't like it either. It plays into the stereotypes of women as heavily made-up, sparkles, high heels, silly and vacuous.

20 years ago when Paul O'Grady was doing drag, his Lily Savage was smart, sassy, sharp tongued and very funny. The new breed of "queens" aren't like that at all.

I also don't like the idea that woman is a costume which you can take on and off.

I think it’s wrong how some people think of drag queens as representing gay culture. Lesbian or bisexual women’s culture should be half of the story, just as visible. Why is men’s (women-hating) culture so much more important and celebrated and visible?

Anyone who has watched Rupaul's drag race and seen what drag means to the contestants and how it's saved them when they've had to deal with terrible things happening to them would not feel this way.

So it’s, what, just pure coincidence that the response of all these people to the challenges in their lives has been to dress up like a parody of a woman?

Luckily - you don’t have to watch it if it offends you that much. Hooray for freedom of choice 🤷🏻‍♀️😊

I think a group of people, who hold power over another group of people, dressing up as them, using makeup to change their faces and mocking the group with the lesser power is fine. And sooooo glam.

And the names are hilarious, just hilarious. Cheryl Hole for instance, what a laugh. And calling women bitch and fish. Love it.

Silly women, thinking again, what are they like.

@dowehaveastalker shame we can't switch off from the pervasive denigration of women and misogyny drag perpetuates quite as easily.

That link is interesting. It clearly says that drag was first established by gay sex workers so they could work more freely (as always people find it more acceptable for women to be selling their bodies and being used as a sex toy 🙄 nothing new there), but in the thread about drag artists reading to children in libraries, most people claimed drag has nothing to do with sex and is in no sexualised and definitely not a fetish.
I had never really though about drag before reading some of the threads on MN. I want people to live however they want as long as it's not hurting anyone. The more I think about drag, it does make me slightly uncomfortable. I'm not sure why, for someone to be accepted or feel as though they belong, they have to dress up as a caricature of another group of people.