To feel uncomfortable with regards to Drag?

[ShawshanksRedemption]

Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable with Drag?

AIUI Drag came about because women's roles were originally played by men on the stage, and from there it's evolved to have pantomime dames, which is a caricature of women. Drag has now become an art form, a performance, with programmes like RuPaul's Drag Race showing how popular it is, but at it's core it's still a caricature, it's still a parody of women, and it's gaudy, brash and the wit and put downs waspish!

I can't help but feel a bit uncomfortable about it all, maybe it's something I'm reading too much into, but effectively it's men aping women in a very unattractive way (and I'm not just talking the make up here).

Anyone else feel the same? Or should I just embrace it and get over myself?

Below is a great thread which explained it well I thought; the history and the meaning.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3369945-How-is-drag-different-from-black-face

Rupaul's UK Drag Race starts soon. I'm looking forward to it

Its very dangerous to laugh at men, or parody male stereotypes. Masculinity is fragile and fiercely protected. It’s not culturally accepted so much to take the piss out of male behaviour or undermine it even in our enlightened times.

Women tho...

YANBU, I hate it for all of the reasons posters have outlined in this thread

I hate it and always have.

I also hate pantomime dames because they parody middle aged women. There's nothing funny about misogyny.

Thank you @YouthGoneMild I'll have a read.

YABU. It makes me really sad to read these opinions. Drag is about positivity and community, it's about people who have faced rejection from society and their blood relatives finding a family. It's about having fun and not taking life too seriously. It is not about you. Anyone who has watched Rupaul's drag race and seen what drag means to the contestants and how it's saved them when they've had to deal with terrible things happening to them would not feel this way.

I don't see it as parody of women, I see it as men in stockings, wigs and make up, I've never met a woman line that, only men. I'm happy to laugh at men.

Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable with Drag?

^I hate it too. I find it tacky and cringeworthy

Womanface and blackface are the same. Both very offensive.

Interesting how Trudeau is apologising for blackface while getting woke points for endorsing womanface.

It’s the equivalent of minstrelling.

Find it funny that Justin Trudeau is castigated for wearing blacking up make up 20 years ago, yet is full woke about self identity politics when it comes to gender.

X-post with chocolate

Don’t watch it if you don’t like it, everyone has different tastes. Personally I love it 💓😂

Ru Paul-esque drag - fine
Mrs brown's boys drag - absolutely awful and should be banned immediately.

Why? Is it because Mrs Brown isn’t playing the ‘sexy’ woman face? If the man in drag is unattractive and playing a dowdy, middle aged woman, that’s wrong?

YABU. It makes me really sad to read these opinions. Drag is about positivity and community, it's about people who have faced rejection from society and their blood relatives finding a family. It's about having fun and not taking life too seriously. It is not about you.

Hypothetically, what if gay people had instead bonded doing blackface and minstrel shows @Chickenlady25? Would that be OK?

What do you mean by Drag?

Do you mean Little Britain and The League of Gentlemen? I don't find these offensive. I don't find pantomime dames offensive, either.

Do you mean the drag queens reading to and playing with children in the library? I do object to that.

There was a huge thread about this a few weeks ago.

Drag is misogynistic. It's womanface. It exaggerates perceived (by men) 'unpleasant' feminine traits such as nagging, bitchiness, and so on. Names like Cheryl Hole reduce women to gentitals and drag 'artists' routinely call women 'fish' as part of their act. And for some reason, many women are complicit.

@YouthGoneMild Interesting points raised on that thread.

I've never gone to a panto - I've found the pantomime dames creepy when I've seen them on TV. Like some people find clowns creepy. They make me feel that I'm seeing something very false, and that it feels therefore "disturbing" (to me). Obviously my feelings over Drag are therefore possibly irrational but maybe influenced from something or someone when I was younger.

I was watching a news piece yesterday about the launch of RuPaul's drag race, and I just had those same feelings again, and it made me question whether it was just me, or whether it was denigrating to women in some way. But I do agree, the intentions of the performers doing Drag is to entertain, that they may see it differently and that it's an homage to women rather than denigrating.

Perhaps it really is down to the individual Drag artist as to how they deliver their performance? That some will be uplifting to women as a gender, rather than stereotyping femininity for older women and presenting a caricature. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to it now I'm menopausal age!

I hate it. It's mocking women, I find watching it incredibly uncomfortable and never funny. I used to kind of like Eddie Izzard because he used to say he was just a bloke that liked a bit of lippy and eyeliner and never did the 'mock woman voice' but he's changed his views. A poster on another thread hit the nail on the head when she said if you go to the supermarket you see women and men wearing jeans and a t-shirt and trainers with no make up and that how people look. This exaggerated 'woman' look is so weird to me. I hope in years to come it IS seen as blackface.

I watched the same news piece OP and felt a bit ... i don't even know what the word is! ... unsettled?

I mean, not massively, i just watched it with a bit of a frown and vaguely thought - ''really? At a time when a lot of parody is being closely scrutinised in case it causes offense, this lot are posing around doing ... whatever this is?''

@Tanith Your post has really given me food for thought. I found the actors in League of Gentleman playing female characters like Pauline, Tubbs and Auntie Val were intentionally creepy and unsettling, although I found the programme itself funny (in fact so funny I went to see them live!). Drag performers aren't intentionally being creepy and unsettling I don't think, yet to me they are. I'm wondering why I feel that way.

Funnily enough I actually don't object to Drag performers reading to kids in the Library. I realise this is at odds with my own feelings, but if Panto Dames are OK for many people, then they're OK for reading stories to kids too.

@YouthGoneMild, thank you! I was just about to ask how people think the two compare. I'm not comfortable with either, tbh. I don't mean cross dressing, but drag artists, because I do think they caricature, trivialise and denigrate women's lives sometimes.

I guess women and redheads must be the last groups it's still acceptable to be offensive about.

@ShawshanksRedemption Glad you found it useful. I let helped me sort out how I feel about drag and now I’m mostly ok with it. I watched some RuPaul and quite enjoyed it, but I get your point about it being how each performer chooses to portray themselves.

I went to a drag show many, many years ago (I’m also of a certain age) and it came across as a tribute to the women they were impersonating, rather than the hammy panto dames who are more like bad caricatures of women.

I believe intent is everything and mostly it is a tribute, but some get it wrong.

curses the lack of edit buttons after a sausage fingered post