To think that surely this is child abuse?

[FiveFarthings]

An episode of Stacey Dooley Sleeps Over is airing tonight which features a family with three children aged 8, 4 and a baby and the parents let the kids do whatever they want and it’s so extreme I think it’s verging on abuse.

The kids are ‘home schooled’ but the 8 year old cannot write his own name. The parents say it isn’t a priority and that he will pick it up eventually. The kids all sleep in the same bed as their parents, they have no set time for bed and they can eat whatever they want whenever they want. To be fair the kids do seem to eat a lot of veg so I can’t knock that. The four year old is still in nappies.

They don’t enforce teeth brushing- tooth brushes are available to the kids but if they don’t want to brush their teeth, they won’t make them. They also don’t believe in main stream medicine (including antibiotics and vaccinations).

Surely this is child abuse?! Also aren’t there any checks made if children are home schooled to ensure they are actually been taught properly?

Here is a link to an article about it- www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7473545/Father-lives-social-housing-insisted-no-intention-finding-time-work.html

I can’t stand Stacey Dooley but I’m going to have to watch this tonight because I really can’t believe this!

I would wait until you have seen the show rather than DM take on it before you start clutching your pearls.

They sound like typical Brighton people to me, it's down the road but I avoid it like the plague. Everyone there is alternative but in the most irritating way possible.
Also you don't just "pick up" writing skills, you need to be taught.
I went to a progressive school in the 60's that didn't teach things like maths but "enabled us to self learn". The result: a U grade at maths O level. No brainer really. Thank God my mother taught me to read and write.
Clutches pearls!!!

I wouldn’t call it child abuse but very bad parenting . What worries me are the parents like this whom kids I have to teach .

Nah, it's not abuse. If you sit tight for a few minutes someone will be along to tell you that their home-schooled child taught themselves to read in 3 weeks age 11 and is now a Don at Oxford. Happens all the time (but only with the children of middle-class unschoolers, doesnt work for poorer kids who dont go to school unschool for some reason).

I thought it was benign neglect. Yes it is abusive.

Id say neglect - which should be treated the same as abuse.

I have a feeling I am going to sit open mouthed at this programme tonight. I find it completely baffling and I am shocked when people think children don't need routine and discipline.

@BarbariansMum

I've seen this family before...wasn't there some uproar that one of the kids did a wee in the This Morning studio?

Anyway to answer your point; this just proves to me that homeschooling needs to be heavily heavily regulated and yes, not enforcing tooth brushing is neglect and therefore abuse.

I don't think you can call it abuse but it is definitely poor parenting. AFAIK homeschooling still has rules, and you can't do it if you're going to neglect their education. Am I right in that? Surely the child should be able to write their name.

It seems like they will grow up to be very very difficult adults. How will they ever be able to hold down a job with this little discipline early on?

It isn't abuse, but it is very irresponsible and unfair to the children.

The couple have been assessed by SS, so i think what the media portrays is exaggerated.

I know when they all slept in one room and sometimes one bed, they were in a temporary hostel. They'd been evicted from their one bed flat, which in parts of the country isn't unusual.

However, I don't agree with how they live and think that it is neglect.

Benign neglect- which has so many far reaching consequences for the children. It’s lazy parenting to deprive your children of learning the basic skills to function in the adult world, will keep them ignorant and dependent on the parents far longer than the norm.

Hadn't noticed this will watch.
I like Stacey I think she's matured into a good journalist and has real credibility.
Thanks for the heads up.

It's neglect. Christ, people like this really piss me off. 'I'm too alternative to earn a living and provide my kids with a good example and life basics like teeth brushing, cooked veg, literacy and numeracy' It's bullshit and it really makes a mockery of those who are actually unable to work, or work bloody hard and still end up at food banks.

And not giving vaccinations is child neglect. Anti vaccination nonsense is woo woo bull shit peudoscience. Vaccinations are fine people. Read some factual information and you will see it's the case!

These programmes are really just offering a bit of cheap titillation under the guise of investigative journalism. I’ll be avoiding this along with “Bodyfreaks: Britain’s Largest Buttocks”.

Yanbu, definitely abuse in my book. What happens when the poor kids have to get knocked out to have their teeth pulled

I have some respect for alternative schools of thought on children learning. I think there are better ways than the way children are educated in school... however this family seem very much to have opted out of actually raising their children. If most kids in education can write their name and don't need nappies by X milestone and your homeschooled kid can't, perhaps just maaaaaybe it's time to re-evaluate your strategies.

Some of it shouldn't be called out for abuse. Four year old in nappies - my 3 year old is showing no signs of being ready to ditch them. I've done all I can... the whole shebang stickers, choc buttons, massive song and dance if he did a wee in the toilet. But he has never told me when he needs one even with constant reminders and a mammy like a broken record. I got very upset and demanding with him at one point which resulted in us both crying and him wailing "I just can't". Guilt hit me like a ton of bricks and I've backed way off now and leaving it until he's ready. He's so much happier and so am I!

The teeth brushing thing makes me feel ill though to be honest. Nappy thing fine if it's being changed frequently, but if no one is making sure they are brushing their teeth, ever, then they will rot and cause all kinds of issues. That is disgusting and neglect.

I would say it ticks many boxes for neglect and they would be red flags for schools and doctors to raise as safeguarding concerns. Of course it's interesting that people who are neglectful seem to also have a mistrust of public services and professionals. Coincidence?

Personally, whilst I'm open to home education and alternative lifestyles, I can't help but feel that people turn a blind eye to kids being failed because it's "nice quirky parents who are a bit eccentric" whilst a child from a deprived background with parents who look more "chavvy" (for lack of a better word) would be flagged up on every concern going if they weren't clean, kept away from school, etc.

I’d watch the actual TV Programme, rather that believe what the Daily Mail tells you. Even Wikipedia won’t accept that propaganda rag as a source anymore.

Hygiene is important, the fact they are letting their kids skip teeth brushing I’d say that’s neglect. My younger kid hates having her teeth brushed or at least hated it more than now so I would pin her down and do them. Surely her crying while I brush them is better than me losing her because all her teeth have rot away. Obviously having not seen the show yet I can fork a full opinion but that alone is concerning. In fact, not being able to write your name at eight is concerning too, provided there is no SEN issues.

I have a feeling that this is massively exaggerated because of this family were genuinely doing nothing (in the public eye) the LA would deem the education as being unsuitable and issue an SAO. Parents must provide an education suitable for their childs age and ability.

I can't believe people who haven't seen the programme yet are already faux outraged.

Watch the dawn programme first at least.

But cue lots of home ed bashing threads that come out of this. Instead of realising that this is about the weird parents and nothing to do with home ed. There are parents like this who send their children to school.....

Damn not dawn

Bloody autocorrect