To pump on the train?

[jamtomorrow1]

My train journey is an hour each way. There are plug sockets. I feel that this is wasted expressing time and also my boobs hurt. Part of me fears getting the buzzing Tommee Tippee pump out but part of me really wants to see the facial expressions of the elderly male commuters around me. Thoughts?

As someone who BF DD until she was 2 and only gave an occasional bottle of expressed milk, I cannot disagree more strongly with your post Ginger.

Women who express to feed their baby are massively dedicated to BF. It is far far more taxing to pump than it is to have the baby feed directly from the breast. Expressed milk is still breast milk. It is good for the baby. It provides them not only with the nutrition they need but also with the familiar taste of the milk they get from a BF so is comforting.

Please do not try to shame women who are giving their baby expressed breast milk, whatever the reason might be.

Oh, and as for the massive chip on your shoulder re women who commute to their employment

I’m staggered at some of the comments I’ve read on here. Seriously, how and why the OP feeds her baby is nobody’s business but her own.
If you’ve ever breast fed then you should understand the need to release the feeling of Engorgement. If you’ve ever exclusively pumped then you should understand the frustration of sitting for a period of time knowing you could be multitasking by pumping.
Give the OP a break.

@Bobthefishermanswife I wasn’t particularly good at breastfeeding with my first, and I had the same chewed off nipples so you have my sympathy. I did try pumping for a bit but I wasn’t very good at that either. I wanted it to work because we were poor and formula was expensive but meh.

@meetthewildes I’m not being unkind, just because I have a different opinion from you about whether two week old babies should be left while you go back to your career. I just think that if breastfeeding is so important to you (and the other people on this thread, I’m honestly not picking on you ) then staying at home until it’s established enough that you don’t have to spend half your day attached to a pump would be preferable.

@INeedNewShoes how is pumping being “massively dedicated to breastfeeding”? Breastfeeding is breastfeeding, pumping is bottle feeding. I’m not denying you can do either or both but don’t pretend they are the same thing.

I struggled massively to breastfeed. I went through hell and suffered severe PND over my failure. Now I’m an even worse mother because I couldn’t pump either? Wow, yet another stick to beat mothers with, or yet another thing that perfect mothers can do so much better than everyone else 🙄.

i just think that if breastfeeding is so important to you ... then staying at home until it’s established enough that you don’t have to spend half your day attached to a pump would be preferable.

Preferable, sure.

But given this ‘ideal’ is not possible for the OP then she shouldn’t bother to bf at all?

Is that what you’re saying?

Breastfeeding is breastfeeding, pumping is bottle feeding. I’m not denying you can do either or both but don’t pretend they are the same thing

Who’s saying they’re ‘exactly the same thing’?

But are you denying that pumping breast milk is a good thing to do for your baby?

It’s a shame that your own experience seems to have rendered you less than supportive to the OP who is doing her best, just like you did and the vast majority of mothers out there are doing.

YABU because of the noise factor.

@gingersausage in my case, my tiny babies are left behind with their mother and spend a glorious forth trimester being worn in a sling around the clock whilst sipping breastmilk either from a bottle or a synthetic nursing system. They don't suffer. And we've all benefited from my earnings more than doubling in the last four years - something that wouldn't have happened had I enjoyed the maternity leave to which I was entitled.

Perhaps in future you can try to trust that the strangers on the internet, who know their own and their family circumstances intimately, are making the best decision for them.

Ginger - I'm sorry that you struggled to BF. I know how soul destroying it is. DD was readmitted as a newborn because I wasn't managing to BF. We were very close to switching to formula on the advice of the paediatrician.

However, you would think that having had your own struggles you wouldn't think it ok to come on this thread and bash mothers who for whatever reason feed their children expressed milk.

Nowhere in my post did I say that formula is bad. You decided to read between the lines and see something that wasn't there but you have overtly criticised expressed feeding.

I know enough extremely healthy teenagers who were formula fed as babies to know that formula is absolutely fine.

Expressing milk is extremely time consuming, a massive faff and I have respect for women who manage to do this. The minute DD turned one I was relieved to be able to stop expressing and for the (relatively infrequent) occasions where I couldn't be present for a feed she could have oat milk in a bottle (dairy allergy). I was hopeless at expressing and it took at least 3 sessions to get a feed's worth.

The problem with breastfeeding is that it's such an emotive subject that any discussion around it always leads to upset.

@Beakyok it becomes other people’s business when you open it up for discussion on the internet. If you want to keep things private don’t talk about them on Mumsnet 🤷‍♀️

for @gingersausage

While I don't agree with the points you have made I do know what it feels like to sob over a "failure" to breastfeed and then to look jealously at other mums around me who seemed able to pump for their babies for months on end while I also failed at that.

But what I have come to terms with is that its not failure and just us all doing our best for our babies. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. We are all different.

What we shouldn't be doing as mum's is beating each other with any sticks, we should be supporting each other.

If a woman wants to return to work after two weeks and wants and is able to pump then she should be able to. I've never had one of these big city jobs but have seen how even taking maternity leave puts me at the back of the pack. While employers should allow you to express, its not necessarily practical in every job and I can see how taking an hour out of you day every day to express will put you behind.

So yes, I think its totally reasonable to pump on the train if it helps you maintain your job and breastfeeding.

I was once expressing (discreetly under a shawl) on a train, a man came and sat next to me and struck up a conversation. Torsllg fine and normal. I finished pumping, bagged the milk and put it away in my bag. When I got off the train an hour later (having at one point nipped to the loo, leaving my stuff) I realised some fucker (probably chatty man) had stolen my pump and milk!

So, in my opinion, it's fine to pump, but watch out for pervs. I was raging, DS couldn't have formula at that point, and the pump cost over £100 to replace

@meetthewildes I know the last thing you care about is what I think but I’m glad your baby is with their other parent. That makes a huge difference (and not because it’s a female parent either) .

@FedUpWithItAllWeep and @INeedNewShoes thank you.

Jeez, @gingersausage you sound delightful! Policing other women's feeding choices as not "proper" or somehow inferior because it's not done the same way as others is a properly dickish thing to do, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Of course pumping is still “breastfeeding” are you not having steak unless you’re knawing it directly from an animal carcass?

gingersausage you do realise WHO now encourage women to breastfeed for the first 2 years. Not many women can afford to take 2 whole years off work to look after their baby, I’m sure many would love to, but it’s a luxury few can afford.

@StressyDressyHeels

how is pumping being “massively dedicated to breastfeeding”?

Because it’s an enormous inconvenience, it’s all the hassle of formula feeding and none of the convenience of breastfeeding. I pumped every two bloody hours for seven months. I did it because things were complicated medically and I didn’t want to make things worse, and because I felt guilty about my failure at breastfeeding.

You are not a bad mother because you couldn’t bf or pump. I am not a better mother because I pumped. But please don’t trivialise what is a massive fucking effort and commitment just because it makes you feel bad. I don’t do that to mothers who were able to bf.

how is pumping being “massively dedicated to breastfeeding”?

Because I had to pump for three months to keep my supply up so I could then manage to breastfeed my DD when she was finally able to latch. It would have been easier for me to switch to formula, but I didn't, so I think that shows a level of dedication to breastfeeding. Likewise people pumping to keep supply up, to stop themselves getting mastitis that might affect their baby's feeding at home, etc. What is that if not a dedication to breastfeeding?

I'm sorry if any of that makes you upset about your own experience but that's on you, not anyone else. Other people's success does not equate to your failure unless you let it.

You're right, though. Pumping is not breastfeeding. It's even more difficult and worthy of praise IMO. It's breastfeeding with bells on.

As a long distance train commuter I don’t really see a problem as long as you don’t invade other’s personal space eg loud noise; elbowing; not letting others sit next to you; not moving if they’re in the window seat/you’re in the aisle seat and it’s their stop etc.

Also as long you’re a tiny bit discreet - I don’t mean that in a sexist/judgemental way, more like if I was sitting next to a random I wouldn’t want to be near their exposed tits or bodily fluids etc. If you can do it without that being an issue then go for it of course.

You're right, though. Pumping is not breastfeeding. It's even more difficult and worthy of praise IMO. It's breastfeeding with bells on.

Yep. That first week in hospital where the time I could have slept - had I been FF - I was pumping in order to keep up is not an experience I would ever want to repeat.

@gingersausage I'm sorry you had a bad experience and understand a little bit where you are coming from - but remember that pumping in the day may be the only way some women can continue to BF in the evening when they've had no choice but to return to work. It's not just to supply bottles.

I exclusively pumped for my 4th dc and I pumped everywhere, yanbu.

'If you’re so desperate to breastfeed then do it properly, not via a flipping milking machine.

(Obviously I’m excluding people with ill babies from this or babies in SCBU)'

@gingersausage That's an awful thing to say. Just because you say you exclude those of us who couldn't breastfeed for medical reasons (second person on this thread who exclusively pumped for a baby with a cleft lip and palate) doesn't mean we can't read what you wrote above that!

Pumping is hard work. No one is choosing it for an easy life! OP, if pumping on the train is going to make feeding your baby easier and you can do it without causing yourself and others around you massive stress then just go for it.

Jesus gingersausage you talk about a "stick to beat mothers with" and then you do just that?!

You're bitter breastfeeding didn't work out for you. I can understand that, it's horrible when that happens. But tearing other women down to make yourself feel better is simply nasty behaviour. You shouldn't be ashamed that you did BF/pump for long but you should be ashamed for attempting to make other women feel like "failures" too.

If you’re so desperate to breastfeed then do it properly, not via a flipping milking machine. (Obviously I’m excluding people with ill babies from this or babies in SCBU)

Why? If women can’t breastfeed and want to give their baby breastmilk why shouldn’t they use a pump? Because you didn’t?

Exclusive pumping is a massive commitment and you can’t just opt in and out of it because you’re stuck on a train. You’ll end up with mastitis and a shit supply if you do. Pumps are nowhere near as effective as babies at draining a breast so you have to do it frequently and for a while.

And those mothers who have to go to work and pump to maintain their supply and feed their baby while they’re not there should be applauded, not mocked and criticised.