Is your mum supportive and emotionally available?

[Shangrilala]

I don’t feel I’ve ever had that special close bond/relationship with my own mother. She’s critical, judgey, defensive and very much close minded/emotionally unavailable.
I’m a mother too now and in my early forties. I’ve had issues my whole life with intimacy, self acceptance and body image. Depression featured heavily in my teenage years. Alcohol came later. Now chronic anxiety.
It’s dawning in me (albeit too late) that my unfulfilling relationship with my mother has basically screwed all this for me

Really sorry you're going through this OP. My mum is also emotionally unavailable. She's ok if I need a hand with practical things but as soon as I need a shoulder to cry on she isn't there. Judgy and has extreme views on various things which I do not share. I also realised this when I had a child and I also have anxiety and depression which I've come to realise is because of her. What helped me is acknowledging I can't change her and she will not be there for me emotionally. I need to rely on myself. It's tough but least I don't be let down anymore.

No, I’m in a similar position. I’ve pretty much brought myself up. I speak to her occasionally but it’s always about her problems, she’s never been supportive or acted like a mother from what I can remember. I was asked the other day for my next of kin, that’s when reality kicked in that I have no one.

I could have written your post for myself OP. It took me until I was a mother myself to realise that all her little digs and criticisms weren't normal and she's still at it now.

She constantly goes on about my weight (I know I'm overweight but I'm working on it, I can't even have the smallest treat without a comment though) and she'll tell anyone who listens about my drinking problem. Which I don't have, I rarely drink now because too much interferes with medication for a condition I have, as a result I hardly ever drink at home and maybe have a glass or two of wine when out for a meal, easily going weeks and sometimes months between even that, but she's the one going through 1-2 bottles of wine each evening (more if she isn't working the following day.) In her eyes it's ok though, she's apparently not alcoholic because my alcoholic aunt was drinking multiple bottles of vodka a day, but if I visit my parents and she pours me a glass of wine, I'm drinking all her wine and have a problem.

It's hard to shut yourself off from it, a lifetime of it had me really believing the things she said but I can't challenge her because that's me "trying to ruin everything." Thankfully DH can see what she's doing and he can help calm me when he sees it irritating me when she does it again but it's not easy. I'm the only one she targets too so it's hard to tell others and be believed, my DB (my only sibling) is the golden child so he can do no wrong in her eyes, and I'll never live up to that for her it seems.

I'm lower contact with her now than I was before and it's done wonders for my self-esteem and depression. I had to because I caught her starting the same shit on my DD before she even became a teenager and I didn't want my children going through the same things I did.

No. No she wasn't. Wishing me dead when I as a naive teen caught up in a dv / coercive controlling relationship with an older man, was a particularly low point.
Not coming to visit (an hour drive) when I was dangerously ill for three weeks was another
Now she is demented and in a care home.
It only gets worse I'm afraid.

That reply was not helpful, I'm sorry. Feeling especially cross tonight.
Find an accredited therapist. Interview loads and go with who you click with.

No never

Miserable self obsessed cow bag.
Greave for the loss of the mother you wish you had, and try to move along,

No. My mum was no contact with me for 3 years. We’re now in contact but she makes no effort. She talks a good game but when it comes down to making any effort she just doesn’t. I try not to let it bother me and learn from the way she is with me to make sure I’m never like that with my children, although sometimes I do wonder why I’m just not good enough for her.

When I saw your thread title, I inwardly laughed. Not at you, rather thinking of my mother as either of those things.

So far from it! She has always belittled my feelings, blamed me, made it worse. An example, when I was 10, I was bullied quite a bit, and again at 13. It was always my fault. She knew “how I was,” I gave them something to pick on, because I reacted.

Everything is about her. When I divorced my emotionally abusive husband, it was about her. “Is it really over this time? Good, I’m so sick of this shit.” Very dramatic and as if she had been the one to suffer the marriage.

When I was let go from a job where we worked at the same very toxic place (who loved her - fake ass kisser - but disliked me, not fake, no ass kisser), she complained it was the worst thing that happened to her.

Same as the way you described yours. Very much. It was always “why can’t you be like” named a friend, and “you’re getting fat! Your friends think you’re thin because they’re fat and so in comparison you’re thin.” I was 5’5” with 24” waist and still narrow in the hips at that time. I’d grown a bit as I had started puberty. She never appreciated the good grades, compliments of my behavior and manners from other adults.

I’d always wondered what was wrong with her, as I saw friends and girls in public seeming to have loving relationships with their mothers. Nothing was perfect of course, but they didn’t get constantly criticized, torn down. They also never believed me because she was “always so nice!” That was very, very hard.

Like you, I figured it out decades on. It was a bit of a relief to have that confirmation, that her behavior was not normal. I Googled “what the Hell is wrong with my mother” and found out about narcissistic personality disorder. Even a forum where people told stories of their mothers, and so many were similar!

I’m sorry you had to suffer that, and that you’re dealing with anxiety. Maybe finding some support with other children of narcissistic parents will help you. There are lots of good YT videos on the subject too.

No and I think it's rare to find someone who had an ideal mother. Everyone is messed up one way or another. You basically need to mother your inner child.

Your post resonates with me too. My mother hasn’t really provided me with that supportive guidance at all.

She’s certainly not cruel but takes zero responsibility for her actions and their impact on people. It’s often dressed up innocently as ‘it’s just her way’, but from an very early age I’ve learnt that her first thoughts will always be about herself. She always first weighs up the impact on her if she’s put in a position where she could
Help me.

She’s has however, cleverly, built a reputation amongst people that ‘she’ll do anything for anyone’ which mostly involves running errands for neighbours. People think she’s the kindest woman in the world. They would never believe that true kindest, such as really asking her daughter if she’s ok and whether she’d like any support in anyway completely passes her by

I made my peace with this to a degree some time ago, but it doesn’t stop it hurting now and again. I’m at a point in my life where I’d really value a listening ear from a older, wiser woman. I’m struggling to juggle full time work, kids and a marriage. Really struggling. But my mother lacks any empathy skills that would mean she would truly listen to me.

It’s really tough OP. I try my hardest to think that what is now in my gift is my relationship with my one DC and how I can shape that to be a possible one for the future

Nope and nope. This is no revelation to me, but the grief I have as a mother myself now is pretty severe. It took this long to realise it’s not normal for a mother to behave as she has and this long to realise how much it has affected me as a person. Worse is the fear I will become that sort of mother too and my child will one day feel as shit as I do now.

I’m now in the role of her carer as she is very ill and there’s no one else. I have compassion for her but if she ever had compassion for me it certainly wasn’t obvious. And there have been many, many times she should have. It’s a headfuck. Sometimes I imagine saying some of the whack things she would say to me when I was sick and then disappear as she did and see how she deals. But I can’t.

My mum sounds very similar Saying that my mam Is always there in practical ways. She drove 6 hours to watch my older children while my baby was in hospital. Then drove 6 hours home and worked a 12 hour shift.

She just doesn't know how to be emotionally available. I know she loves me very much though but only because about 6 years ago she and her then partner were staying with me and me and mam had a fight. When she left her partner told me what she never does. That she missed me because I had moved away and that she spoke about me all the time and she is so proud of me.

Every now and again it does come from her in a text usually or on a answering machine never to my face. I really wish she could be the mum who I needed but she's the mum I've got and although I don't think I'll ever be good enough/thin enough/have the right job for her I know she'll always be there if I need a room painting or furniture moving
The Karate Kitty I think our mums sound very similar when I was bullied my mum said if that many people don't like you it must be you that's wrong it broke my heart.
Then a few years ago when we were talking about the bullying she said why didn't I tell her.
She was always compared me to other and this hasn't stopped and still hurts.

mine is just my mum, she's a person in her own right. She has her own mental health issues, and has throughout her life. I don't expect her to "be there emotionally" for me, I'm a grown up.

I find it odd when people say "it is all about her" when what they seem to be saying is "it should be all about me" If she has a personality disorder, a mental health issue, then she needs support.

Everyone seems to expect their mother to be perfect, for them to know how to do this parenting thing. Mothers can have mental health issues too, your crap does not trump their crap just because you are their offspring. Who was supporting her in how to do this parenting thing when you were small?

I don't get on particularly well with my mum, but we rub along where necessary. She is "ill" and has my support. It has certainly helped me to be the parent I want to be.

Beyond it sounds like you have come to an acceptance of who your mother is and have come to an understanding that what she is doesn’t define you.

I think I got to that point eventually but still suffered everything that the OP describes for decades. As a child my self esteem was zero which took years and years to rectify. As an adult I took responsibility for trying to reframe the relationship so that it was more positive, with limited success. I made peace with it in the end, when I understood more about her life, but as a young person and young mother I didn’t have that knowledge and was continually made anxious by her responses to me as her daughter.

I wondered, did you have someone else who provided that security while your mum was experiencing mental health issues?

BagpussAMH I lived on a (smallish) Scottish island, we had to pick up resilience rather quickly at a very young age. So no, not support as such, though no one in the wider community would ever let a child suffer... but there really is a general attitude that everyone has their own problems, get over it, get on with life, and help those less able to help themselves.

I moved down to England 20 years ago, and my word what a difference in attitude. People seem to lack resilience, have too much time on their hands and constantly look backwards instead of pushing on.

People live different lives, and it is hard for those of us from "outside" to understand, so I do hope everyone gets all the help they need. But in my mind, in my world, that does include their mothers too...

I think children all know instinctively whether their mother actually loves them or not. There’s a big difference between an undemonstrative but actually very caring mum, a superficially gushing but insincere callous mum, and a completely uncaring narcissist.
My ghastly mother was in the final category. Never said she loved me, and never did. Constantly criticised and undermined. Never even gave me a hug, and pushed me away if I tried to have one. Everything was about her, and she saw her DC as competition for attention that she wanted on her.
I went no contact with her when pregnant with my first child. She died about 4 years later, and I felt nothing but relief. I used her as a role model of how not to be a parent.

@BeyondMyWits do you have the same view about children that grow up in a physically abusive or neglectful environment? That they just need to be more resilient?

No, she's a narcissist. She can't bear to talk about anything that doesn't directly involve her and she's only happy when she's ranting about perceived slights against her.

DH and I are in the life changing position of recently inheriting a house, so we are moving out of shithole rented flat and are mortgage free at 29. When I told her she snapped "it's not fair, I still have seven years left on my mortgage" and hung up on me. When I recently mentioned how the renovation is going she cut me off to ask if I liked her new jewellery.

Arsehole.

Interesting, beyond. I wonder if growing up in a small community provided that clarity and sense of ‘belonging’ that I think many of us are missing. My mum had a strong sense of identity because of her family/community but she had left that community long before she met my dad, so we (her children) didn’t have that connection except through her memory.

Hi Shangrilala,

I am so sorry this realisation has hit you, not a good feeling but want to reassure you that this it is a positive, not something that has come 'too late' to make a difference to your life. I had exactly the same thing, around the same time and I am now, after much self help research and therapy in a very, very happy place. Once you realise how your past has affected your future you can take steps to do something about it.

For me that meant reading all the books and websites that I could about dysfunctional families. It is not normal for a parent to be so uninterested, un-invested and unloving to their child and has a huge impact on self-esteem and the ability to form healthy relationships in their future. Counselling has also helped me enormously particularly to receive the validation I never received as a child. Perhaps you can access some therapy via your doctor if you are not able to fund it yourself. Do you have friends that you can talk to about it? I kept most of the 'horrors' of my childhood to myself because I felt so ashamed. Getting it out there is so freeing.

You have come 'out of the fog' so to speak, so congratulate yourself. Allow yourself to grieve what you never had, learn to comfort yourself and take control of your own future. It's not hopeless and you will be doing your own family a great service by breaking the mould. Big hug to you.

@Dacquoise I’d love to hear from from you as I aim for that “very, very happy place” but it always feels out of reach. I imagine the OP and others would be interested to hear more too.

Who was supporting her in how to do this parenting thing when you were small?
I was. I was parenting my siblings at a shockingly early age. Cooking, cleaning, ironing was all done by me. I changed more nappies before I was ten than she did. I took care of them when they were sick and shielded them from her rage at them inconveniencing her by being ill. Now she re writes history and tells in laws that I have no patience with children and difficult, with hints that I’m mentally unstable.
She can control herself because she puts on an act for people outside the family - she knows it’s wrong. She’s always put a lot of thought and effort into belittling and hurting her family, gets quite smug and pleased with herself when she gets any reaction.
I haven’t seen her for twoyeads, and she’ll die knowing I’ll never forgive her, and I’ll be relieved when she’s gone.

OP, it sounds cliched, but you have to be your own mother.

I think a lot of people in the same boat when they have their own children and can't imagine being so unsupportive of them. My DPs are helpful in practical ways but are very much driven by family goals (mostly financial) and we're just all supposed to fall in to line with no consideration as to what grown adults actually want to do. When I got engaged you'd think the world had ended yet when my newborn nearly died and I had PND they honestly just brushed it aside. My GPs were abusive with DM was young and I think she doesn't know unconditional love so can't show it. The best thing we can do is try to stop the cycle. Ironically nothing is too much for their grandchild. My DF actually co sleeps with her for naps!

Sorry OP, went on about myself a bit there.

Alcohol and anxiety problems are a fairly frequent outcome of this kind of (lack of) parenting. I know I have struggled. The only thing that made it possible for me to start caring about myself was to put space between us. I second what a pp said about therapy. Sometimes we need help to sort out the ways we react to situations, and how we have been trained to be compliant.
It’s never too late, think of how many years you could have ahead of being free of the anxiety and self hatred.