Being a conductor is a bonkers job?!

[WineIsMyCarb]

Watching Last Night is the Proms. Not musical at all myself.
But AIBU to think that being a conductor is a bonkers job?! I see how someone is required to keep everyone's timing together, encourage more volume, say, from some instruments and less from more enthusiastic orchestral... members (?)
But your job is to wave your arms around in front and look moved or serious at seemingly random bits of music.
Lighthearted, in case anyone thinks I'm suggesting conductors should be taken as political prisoners or anything ludicrous.

What's the career path here? Did they work their way up from being a lowly recorder player doing Twinkle Twinkle at the back?

This thread is interesting. I have played in a few orchestras and bands (all amateur!) and I have never considered how / why one gets into conducting, especially professionally!

In the orchestras I've played in the best players have been put on 1st violin, but it makes sense to even things out across the sections as you need the seconds to sound equally as good.

In the wind sections it makes sense to put the best player on first as the parts are often more prominent and exposed and you're on your own.

Everyone in an orchestra is aware of the conductor in their peripheral vision, even if it doesn't seem like they're looking at him /her.

@frogsoup I know! We were so fortunate looking back. There is no way my parents could have afforded anything more costly than a recorder. I suppose they might have stretched to paying music lessons if they had to (they happily stumped up for dancing lessons for a year and I was beyond useless) but it would have been a big ask. By the time I was in the 5th form, and it clearly wasn't a passing whim, they bought me my own instrument and I remember that their were tremendously good deals that the school could arrange so we got a discount on it.

Free instruments. Free tuition. Several bands and orchestras that were arranged by the school courtesy of the teachers giving up their own time to organize them. Free transport to get me home from band practice in the evening. Good old 1970's!!

@leaserspottedmummybird Guilty as charged! I've been brought up just to shout at people walking past the pub and chew crisp sandwiches with my mouth open so what do you expect!

Until I read this thread I was baffled by my DH's questions about 'what on earth is that man doing?' etc. I've been musical all my life but DH was the one who had to stand in the corridor during singing lessons and was asked to mime at school carol services! Even with that, I'd just taken it for granted that 'everyone knew'.

I started by having piano lessons, mainly because my mum wanted a pianist at the Sunday School she was in charge of. I hated it and really wanted to be in a brass band - but West Yorkshire in the 1950s and early 60s? Not a chance. That's for men, lass! So I started singing and ended up reaching the dizzy heights of the chorus of an amateur operatic society before achieving my dream of joining the CBSO chorus.

The two were very different as far as relating to the conductor went. With the opera chorus, we were on a stage and the orchestra down in the orchestra pit, like at a pantomime. The conductor was a bit above the orchestra so the could see him but with stage lights to contend with, I never found I could get a particularly good view of him, especially if I was near the back of the stage.

With the orchestra chorus we were in the choir seats behind the orchestra and facing the conductor so we could see him (usually him, as has been pointed out) and follow his instructions. During my time with the chorus, we had 2 musical directors - Sakari Oramo and Andris Nelsons - but a guest 'visit' by Simon Rattle was the highlight of the whole time for me. I wish I'd still been there when Mirga arrived as I think she's brilliant. (And I have to mention our wonderful chorus director, Simon Halsey, who's not only fantastic at his job but a very funny man.)

Speaking of choirs, thatmakes me remember the most surprising thing of my 15 years or so singing with a big orchestral chorus - that in a really big venue (especially a narrow one!) the distance between you and the conductor is such that you have to account for the time it takes the sound to travel from the back of the chorus to the front of the orchestra, so you have to anticipate the conductor's beat by a fraction of a second!

Well, I am a conductor, and I can tell you it’s the best job in the world! I get to see the world, work with the most talented musicians, and make money out of the thing I love; music.

If you want to read more in detail about what it’s like to be a conductor, and what I actually do, please do take a peek at www.robertemery.com/backstage/preparing-for-a-concert-a-conductors-point-of-view

Robert Emery
www.robertemery.com

5foot5 - Look what I've got mum I suspect my mum felt similarly when I turned up with the school's french horn, unearthed from the bowels of the music room stock cupboard. (My mum insisted on disinfecting it before she'd let me play it. I swear it was made from war surplus battleship plating).

It's getting on for 20 years ago now, but I had the privilege of singing in the chorus several times for performances with the Halle under Mark Elder. Really good conductors are just a wholly different experience from an amateur waving their hands round in a hopeful sort of way.

(Thinking of waving hands around - as someone with experience of both choruses and orchestras, I hate choral conductors. They just move their hands round in circles. You can't tell where the down beat is, never mind how many beats there are in the bar!)

My dad was a conductor in the 60s. He was also a Professor at the LRAM and the MRAM (I think that’s the correct abbreviations! He died a long time ago so I can’t ask)
He taught piano in his spare time and toured a lot during my childhood. I used to love watching him conduct as he always looked a bit mad-he even had the mop of crazy white hair to finish the look!
I think he started off as a pianist, he had a stroke in his late 20s which pretty much ended that career. He then moved onto conducting.

Ooh-just to add to my PP, I should have put that he started conducting in the 60s! I wasn’t around until the late 70s 😆😆

Professional conductor here (female and mom )! The job is more than bonkers, and it is the job with the most responsibility for a group, be it choir, orchestra, or anything else. Knowing all the instrument parts and reading them simultaneously (vertically, so to say, as the score is written with all parts on top of each other), rehearsing well - that is something the audience does not get to see always, which only culminates in a concert. Usually, conductors are good to excellent performers of their instrument/s. I play accordion, piano and percussion, and I sing. Each conductor has their own professional path, but mine was quite standard. I studied percussion and composition (Bachelor's), and then went to study conducting (Master's). You have to love working very odd hours, but it's the best feeling rehearsing and conducting a concert :)
More crazy info: www.sanjabrankovic.com

Although I waved a baton around in my spare time, my “ proper “ job, infant teacher, is much more bonkers!

After a rehearsal with a female conductor tonight, I realised another potential reason why it's harder for women - you often can't hear them as well, particularly if they're trying to say something while the music is playing - shouting out directions or things to note etc. Even afterwards, when you've stopped playing, they can still be harder to hear from the back, and the constant repetition, having to pass messages back, having to keep asking, can make them seem less authoritative. This shouldn't be anything insurmountable, but I suspect is a small part of what contributes to making some women seem less leader-like, even if it's a subconscious perception on the part of players.

Momaestro thanks for the link. That's a very broad ranging repertoire you have there - I looked at some of the video links, everything from Bach to Berg! Do you have a favourite period to work on, or do you see that as too narrow?

Rattle has been mentioned many times upthread - I had a fangirl moment earlier. Put radio 3 on after dropping DS at football. Really fab performance of the last movement of Brahms 4 - of course it turned out to be Rattle and the Berlin Phil.

@Patroclus thanks for the link to "Faking It". I remember that episode, it was amazing.

Interesting link, Momaestro. I've never seen conductors list repertoire before! I always just assumed that they'd conduct whatever they wanted to, and would just prepare it as the need arose, much like orchestral musicians just play whatever is on the season for them, whether it's something they know or not. Is that usual for conductors, to have a sort of core repertoire that they would be hired for?

My dd is a musician, she plays trombone. She tried out for violin in p4 but didn’t get in, then in p5 they offered brass and she did get in. She plays trombone as her principal instrument but can also play euphonium and cornet. She plays in an orchestra and a brass band and a wind band through school. She loves it but is unsure if she wants to make it her career. She’s just been away this weekend playing in a brass band competition and has done a few tours with her orchestra and brass band. It’s such a great opportunity to play an instrument and she’s getting to see the world as well, which is great.

Another one finding this thread fascinating.

Even if I did have to google what a euphonium was

I have fond memories of my Woodwind conductor at school - I couldn’t actually read sheet music, so I mostly mimed playing the recorder until I picked up enough of the melody to play along. He would chant the beat, so you’d always be able to hear him at any concert going “Bum bum BUM bum bummmmm....” over the top of whatever we were playing

@BarbaraStrozzi
I was going to say that I don’t think Stephen Cleobury’s too bad for that but then went & had a look on YouTube & he does look a wee bit... circly... but I could still tell exactly what it was he was after. That may be some kind of lasting trauma thing though...

@BarbaraStrozzi
Thank you! I love to conduct all epochs. Are you a composer/singer?

@BlackberriesAndCream The repertoire is actually the result of all the pieces which we had or wanted to conduct, but it's not a list set in stone - we add to it every time we have a new piece to learn. There are many works I haven't conducted yet, but once I do, I will add them to the list. The orchestras want to know how much experience a conductor has when they apply for a position, for example, so a rep list really helps.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qtdts

Meant to explain- the link is a radio programme called what's the point of the conductor.

Momaestro - I'm an amateur violinist and singer (and retired horn player...), but have dabbled in conducting small choirs. I'm always struck by how much work you have to put into studying the score even for a small 4-part work like, say, one of Handel's Chandos Anthems.

(It's also really obvious when a conductor hasn't yet had time to study the score - we're working on a symphony which is new to our conductor as well as us at the moment, and he's cocking up some of the time changes... Good natured chaos ensues.)

Has anyone mentioned the gloriously ludicrous Jilly Cooper bonkbuster yet?

This thread would not be complete without it, Bertrand.

(To my shame I haven't ever got round to reading it... it sounds like I should. Riders is pretty hilarious even if you're not horsey, I can only guess at how ludicrous you'd find a bonkbuster where you actually had an insight into the world it's set in.)