To ask why I feel sex work is a bit wrong?

[sweatyscruffy]

So I'm fully preparing to get flamed here!
Bf came round last night, I asked her how it was going as her university friends have moved in with her and her dh for a while. Bf's friend was doing webcam work with her dp previously and they were continuing to earn an absolute mint doing it (£30,000 in three months once!) I don't really see anything wrong with it as it's doing what they do anyway with a few cameras filming. The other girl is a medical professional, also part time escort. My bf was telling me about it as if it was the best thing ever. Apparently the agency only takes on clients earning over £50,000, and only contracts girls who know how to talk to and entertain very rich men. It involves a lot of trips to London and Europe, occasionally Dubai. Maybe I sound jealous but the whole thing made me a bit sad. Yes she's a grown woman, yes she knows what she's doing but imagine having to pretend that you find these old men interesting or sexually attractive?
She apparently specifies 40+ men only so she gets the really rich ones so I bet there's a good chance a lot of them are married, not that it's her fault they're choosing to sleep with prostitutes. I try so hard to be ok with it and think of it as feminist but I still feel it's a bit seedy. I'm trying so hard to not judge!

"Spunk receptacle"

How do you think the men view them? That's literally what they are to the men.

I think a lot of women on this thread think this type of man is an awful lot nicer than he actually is.

The amount of women using male escorts is minuscule compared to the amount of men that use prostitutes. There is no comparison.

Male escorts are mainly used by men.

I love how everyone is ignoring that women pay for sex too, there’s a rise in male escorts, are these women rapists?

Men who exclusively prostitute for women punters are vanishingly rare. Maybe it's on the rise but one study only found one IN LONDON to interview. So whether it's 'as bad' is a moot point. As far as I'm concerned bought consent isn't free consent so it's all not OK.

And being rejected because of how you look is rough. But doesn't justify buying consent when you KNOW it's not freely given. Plenty of women get rejected and they live with it. I'm also suspicious because I know lots of men with disabilities who manage to get laid, often with women they meet who also have disabilities. Seems that often men who think it's Ok to buy women are doing to to punch above their weight. It's not that they can't get laid, it's that pretty women won't.

@Lumene read this thread apparently every sex worker has mental health or drug issues.

@LiveInAHidingPlace I’ve not seen fat middle class women perform, but the male cast of Briefs, the Women of LADS and many other amazing burlesque shows.

@Sadiesnakes yes there are men using male prostitutes but lots of women too.

@MrsTerryPratchett the girl doesn’t have a pimp, is enjoying paid for trips around Europe.
No it’s not a moot point, it happens. Go look online, 100s of sites of men advertising services for women to use.

You didn't read what I wrote @MorganKitten

@sweatyscruffy

I have you seen the Sugar Daddy website? A lot of poor students use old rich men for money and give favours in return. I personally would rather have worked in bars or scrubbed floors than let some old seedy man touch me but some women will do anything for cash. I used to be a poor student many moons ago.

"I’ve not seen fat middle class women perform, but the male cast of Briefs, the Women of LADS and many other amazing burlesque shows."

Cool, have a medal.

"the girl doesn’t have a pimp, is enjoying paid for trips around Europe."

Yeah, and then she has to fuck some old, disgusting man. Is it really worth it?

When you read the reality of the so-called 'yacht girls', it's disgusting. The woman who will do the most depraved, dehumanising things is the one who will make the most money. Is that really something we want to hold up as a legitimate career choice?

MorganKitten

@OmniversalsTapdancingTadpole they do go on dates, hence girlfriend experience. It’s a known practice in sex work.

It is not a date, it is prostitution, to call it anything else is wrong. Just because it is called 'the girlfriend experience' does not make it so. Money is exchanged.

But i guess you think it is ok for men disabled or otherwise to use women for their orifices. I dont. I call this objectification entitled behaviour.

Wow a lot happened whilst I was asleep!
I think what confuses me is that this girl doesn't have to do it. She's on about £40,000, lives in a flat in an inexpensive part of the U.K. So I guess my question is why? Yeah money is nice but is it worth it? My bf said 'but sometimes she really fancies them so it's like being paid to shag someone you fancy!' I bet for every one rugged older guy who looks like Beckham, there's ten old Farage lookalikes!
Also in regards to the female punter question, I don't know if I view it differently because women are generally less powerful. I had a friend who was considering it once as her dh had a really low sex drive. She could have gone into a club and found a man who would have fucked her for free. She wanted to pay for someone who knew what they were doing and who she could boss around without feeling mean. She didn't go through with it in the end. Does that make a difference, that she was paying for a 'skill' rather than just a dick?

I think you don;t need to worry about your friend.OP.She sounds very savvy and smart to me.Women can make a choice be if financial or emotional and if it is her choice then thats fine.Sex sells there will always be people to provide it.Her age group of choice tells me she is not stupid! I would be more concerned if she was not providing for herself and lounging about tossing it off on benefits.She seems to me like a very independant woman who is in control of her life.In the field in which she is operating she must be quite successful as the men she is meeting simply dont have the time to mess about,they make the deal and they are done.As you can see I have no issue with the top tiers of prostitution,it is run so differently from the lower end of the market,It is like anything really supply and demand,doesnt matter what the product is your selling,if its top quality it will sell well.Maybe your friend treats it like a business too and doesnt overly invest in it emotionally? One of my friends does similar but without the international travel and her perspective is who is really using who here? She sees them purely as a way to finance her and blimey what they pay for an hour of her time would make anyones eyes water,,,she laughs at the men who are willing to hand over outrageous sums of money for her time,. I can;t judge either way as I am not nor would do what she does ,but she is not suffering from her choices it seems.

What’s wrong with him sharing a bed with someone who gives him what’s known as a girlfriend experience?

How the hell is paying for sex a “girlfriend experience”?

Paying for sex takes away any notion of consent. Paying to use the body of another human being.

It doesn't matter whether the woman is coerced or not, men shouldn't be allowed to buy women. There was a really sad and insightful AMA from an ex prostitute on here recently. Worth a read

@LiveInAHidingPlace

I think burlesque is stripping and therefore a form of prostitution and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Just because it's fat middle class women doing it doesn't change anything.

This is just deliberately provocative and offensive. I think otherwise, but I'm not kidding myself thanks.

I just know the dictionary definition of prostitution. Which is "practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment."

Please note the following in that definition:

engaging in sexual activity - Would you really call someone in nipple tassles dancing with veils on stage, "sexual activity"? This isn't the 1800s. In this definition and most people's, "sexual activity" involves someone else, another party.

with someone - See my last point. Burlesque shows are a performer on stage. They are not transacting with "someone", they are doing a performance for an audience.

For payment. If Imogen from accounts is a burlesque performer, and she chooses to express herself at a local night put on by like minded women performers, and does it for free because she enjoys burlesque...is she still "prostituting" herself according to your ludicrous definition?

As for the "fat middle class women"....I'm genuinely sad you feel the need to be so snide, and am annoyed with myself for even dignifying this with a post.

What MrsTP said.

I quite fancy being a dominatrix, I have a feeling I’d quite enjoy it.

What Toor and so many others have said. I'd be concerned that once she'd been doing sex cam work for a while boundaries have started to blur, would she be easily tempted into other high gain/high risk work? I can't think of a way to articulate it but I'm thinking it's almost like gateway work to other options IYSWIM?

And what about the travel aspect you mentioned? This worries me as she is no longer in the safe (?) confines of her own home. This is literally how trafficking can happen.

For those talking about the rise in male escorts/prostitutes ... comparing these two interactions if the punter decides he/she isn't happy with the "service" they're getting and decides to get slappy who will come off worse, the male or female sex worker? I'm be willing to bet that any comparison of attacks by clients on these workers will show female victims massively outnumbered.

As a slight aside I remember hearing on a thread on FWR a while back about a chat forum (can't remember the name) that men would post on for recommendations and "reviews" of their various prostitution experiences. It was horrible. Absolutely horrible. These men are people's dads, husbands, sons and brothers writing in explicit detail their disrespect and hatred of women. If you really don't think men who consume this service are scum I recommend you look it up and enlighten yourself.

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz I think you mean punternet or ukpunting You're right, they're gross

Yes, that's the one

If sex work is work, how do we feel about the possibility of unemployed women being sanctioned for not doing it? I believe this has happened in Germany.

It is work, but it all has to be consensual and on the woman’s terms. Being told to do so isn’t, and that’s where is becomes something very wrong.

Completely agree with MrsTP. Burlesque, yep, it's stripping.

I've done cam stuff. I'll be honest, I didn't find it empowering. I thought there was something wrong with me because of it. It just made me feel dehumanised, like I was a doll to be played with or something. If things get really bad or if I'm short of money or work, I'll probably go back to it. It's a very niche fetish I cater for.

The argument that paying for consent is not really consent is a grey area.

If I pay a professional masseur for a massage, then I'm buying her consent, she wouldn't massage me for free.

Shes selling herself at the end of the day . You can't get any lower than that, its seedy and sad at the same time.

^This.

Giving a massage as a massage therapist is very different from having man pay to enter and use your body.