Sam Smith coming out as non-binary - help me understand!

[namechangeblah2019]

Name changed for this in case it gets messy.

I don't know if you've seen in the news but the singer Sam Smith came out as non-binary recently and has now asked that people use they/them pronouns with regard to them.

Absolutely not a problem with using those pronouns - I'm not a fan of theirs particularly so it's unlikely that they'll be cropping up that much in conversation anyway!

But - and I promise I am not being obtuse here, I am just old and slow but I am willing to learn - what exactly is non-binary? I just can't wrap my head around it. Surely the existence of non-binariness as a concept positions it as an alternative to an existing binary (i.e. men being macho and loving beer, women being all pink and girly and love wine) which I thought we all got over (or are meant to be getting over - sadly some people are very slow on the uptake!) anyway?

If I put on a pair of trousers or drink a pint or watch football I don't feel any less like a woman. I still feel like namechangeblah2019. How can you both refute the existence of a gender binary but also claim to be outside of it?

Please be kind to me - as I say I'm not implying they are wrong at all and if that is how they feel most comfortable being referred to then good on them and we should all respect that! I just want to learn as I currently feel like a right old fogey

So he'll sing in 00110011

*There are people on here saying they don’t ‘feel’ female.

What makes you able to determine whether their feelings are accurate?*

But this is exactly the disservice trans people are doing to both men and women.
There isn't one 'feeling' that goes along with being a woman. I don't feel female, I don't feel anything, I just am. I am a woman, there is no feeling you get assigned with your sex, it's multifaceted, that's why it's BS for Sam Smith to say he feels like a woman sometimes, he can't quantify it because there is not a feeling that goes along with it.

I am who I am and that's it. I won't feel like every other woman on here because there isn't a feeling of being a woman.

Anybody remember jack Monroe coming out as non binary a few years ago and asking to be referred to as they/ them only to chance her mind a while later and just go back to 'her'

Also to be described as vegan and now simply 'Veganish'

I like jack and her recipes but to me that is just attention seeking.

I'm not bashing/ trolling jack by the way, just making a point.

Sam Smith has stated thing like they think 'like a woman' sometimes and when they have sex they do it in a feminine way.

How do they know 'how a woman thinks', or has sex.

They can have a preconceived idea of how they THINK a woman acts/feels/thinks, but they don't KNOW, because they have never been and will never be a woman.

there is no feeling you get assigned with your sex

womenspeakout nails it in one line. I feel like this needs a gif or a meme to go with it!

when they have sex they do it in a feminine way

and people think this guy is smashing gender stereotypes?
how?

How on earth does he have sex in a feminine way? Flutter his eyelashes and giggle? Because he certainly doesn't take it up the vagina!

Sam Smith has stated thing like they think 'like a woman' sometimes and when they have sex they do it in a feminine way

Is that the same as what porn says is a feminine way?

i saw juno dawson talk about how different sex is as a woman.

basically sex as a woman involved two hours of getting ready/exfoliation.

smashing gender stereotypes they were

We aren't someone's cosplay

This!

How come it's disrespectful to do cultural appropriation stuff like wearing native American headdress at a festival but it's ok for men to say they're women and dress up in some sort of fantasy costume.? Aren't they appropriating our culture?

There is a tonne of very intelligent writing about this online by those who have actually experienced these feelings and can explain better than most here

I adore the casual misogyny of this. The implication that a bunch of mummies couldn’t possibly understand the issue much less articulate it.

Many of us here have had those exact nonbinary/ gender confusion feelings for a hell of a long time (over 40 yrs in my case). Many of us here are researchers, scientists, and professional writers.

We understand the issues perfectly. We also have a collective fucktonne of life experience through which to view the said issues. We (collectively) understand class We have just considered all these and reached a different conclusion.

*i saw juno dawson talk about how different sex is as a woman.

basically sex as a woman involved two hours of getting ready/exfoliation.

smashing gender stereotypes they were*

Where are my Crazy Ex Girlfriends fans at?

It's the Sexy Getting Ready Song!

First world problem.

@WalkofShame What I meant was: if you are biologically female then whatever and however you feel- that is how a woman feels! There isn't just one way to feel like a woman.

So he'll sing in 00110011

Surely -00110011?

-007

I adore the casual misogyny of this. The implication that a bunch of mummies couldn’t possibly understand the issue much less articulate it.

Exactly this.

I am who I am and that's it. I won't feel like every other woman on here because there isn't a feeling of being a woman

So how can you possibly say that someone does or doesn’t feel either male or female? It’s a construct which is both personal and social, so where do people get off, telling someone else how they feel and how they don’t? It doesn’t fit with your narrative, fair enough, but that doesn’t make you right and them wrong.

@WalkofShame
It absolutely is my business when that person shits on my boundaries. How can a male bodied person know what it feels like to be vaginally raped or to have escaped a near miss? To have their tits squeezed at school? To be the subject of misogyny? This is before we even talk about FGM and so forth. But hey we should just go along with their feelz and be ok with them in our private spaces.

We are still waiting for the question to be addressed of why it’s ok for a male bodied person to say they feel like a woman. But not a white person to say they feel black or Native American.

I don't know how any of us can say what anothe person feels whether they are male , female trans , queer , gay.

You feel YOU

I can't say I feel like a man feels as I have no idea ! Better off saying I feel like a cat - sleep , eat , have a wander and piss visitors and nexts doors dog off

You’re massively extrapolating here, using clumsy manipulation to try and make a point.

It’s not simple, it’s not straight forward and it’s worth discussion, but if you can’t discuss it without being daft then maybe don’t bother?

That was to mummyoflittledragon

@WalkofShame
But it’s ok for TRA’s to extrapolate and use clumsy manipulation to prove a point? Difference being that I’m a weak, disabled woman, who is unable to defend myself physically. Unlike them.

You’re doing it again

This person will do anything for attention and is extremely self-absorbed and immature and boring.