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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask you who started the Troubles in the North of Ireland?

591 replies

1FineDane · 11/09/2019 13:23

If you watch this new BBC documentary, what is your answer?
I know British people think the IRA started the whole shit, but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I hope you watch it to realise what history there is in Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008c47/spotlight-spotlight-on-the-troubles-a-secret-history-episode-1

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1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:17

He's retired now and last I heard had just written a cookery book lol.

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1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:18

I wish they dubbed bloody Iain Paisley! That booming lunatic was the voice of the 6 o'clock news in Ireland in the 80's.

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whyamidoingthis · 12/09/2019 15:18

@TrainspottingWelsh - Yep arya loads of kids because that’s catholic’s for you, carving up the land more for every generation to have a plot and over farming it. Just wouldn’t listen to the educated English that wanted to teach them.

I'm coming in late to this thread and haven't read it all yet so apologies if I'm repeating, but I do find the misinformation taught in England fascinating. My daughter met an English girl this summer and the conversation turned to the famine, as it does Confused. My daughter was completely indignant that the only mention of the famine the English girl had heard in history was that is was caused by poor farming techniques. That girl has since been educated Grin.

carving up the land more for every generation to have a plot and over farming it

The land was carved up because Britain introduced the penal laws that required Catholics, when they died, to subdivide land between all legitimate and illegitimate sons.

We could always blame Carson et al, the british army who mutinied in the Curragh, all of which paved the way to partition. We can blame Michael Collins for agreeing to partition. We can blame the unionists for treatment of nationalists, we can blame the British government for collaborating in that. We can blame the RUC, the B specials, the paras, the british army at large, politicians such as Paisley who may not have personally touched a bullet or a bomb but was mortally responsible due to his hate speech, we can blame the paramilitaries, loyalist and nationalist.

Plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately, if Britain had never invaded, we would not have had the troubles.

1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:19

It's a funny decision to have made - was he the only one who was dubbed?

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Voila212 · 12/09/2019 15:21

I think it was called the Troubles because the British government wouldn't recognise that there was a civil war going on in Northern Ireland. The Troubles made it sound more like a squimish rather a full out war. Sukura I don't know when your cousin was going out with the English soldier but watching the BBC documentary it did say that the IRA targeted and killed soldiers, even in ordinary clothes in NI.

1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:22

There's a good book written about the 'famine'. It's called The Great Hunger.

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1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:23

Voila - that's NI though. I think Sakura is Irish (from Dublin?) and we weren't shooting anyone.

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lyralalala · 12/09/2019 15:24

It's a funny decision to have made - was he the only one who was dubbed?

It covered 8 or 9 groups I think (including the UVF and UDA), but was mainly targeted at Sinn Fein. It was supposed to dehumanise them and stop them using the media for publicity.

I’m now off on a google to see if I can find out who other than Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness was dubbed

Voila212 · 12/09/2019 15:25

Oh I know but maybe he presumed it was happening in all of Ireland.

1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:27

That's my point Voila - people mix NI and Ireland up and think we're the same.

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Voila212 · 12/09/2019 15:28

Do you remember the scene in Derry girls where they said Gerry Adams voice was dubbed as his own voice was just to sexy. 😀 I didn't remember it being dubbed either in Ireland, how long was it dubbed up till?

Voila212 · 12/09/2019 15:30

Ah no finedane it's northern Ireland and Southern Ireland. There is no east or west.

lyralalala · 12/09/2019 15:31

From 1988 until 1994

I think the aim was probably to try and keep them out of the media, but they just got actors to do their voice so that didn’t work at all.

isabellerossignol · 12/09/2019 15:33

I'm not sure about visiting Ireland as such, in the sense of entering the country of Ireland through a port or airport in Ireland, but it is true to say that the British military personnel were warned against crossing the border. I knew people who were in the navy and RAF who were not allowed to cross the border when home on leave. They were local and pretty much ignored the advice but I suppose maybe someone who didn't know the area would take that to mean that all of Ireland was dangerous?

1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:36

It was a provocatory stance to have taken. A way to try to undermine the Irish I suppose. Nothing else was achieved by it I imagine. Apart from to teach the English that 'this man is so bad, you can't even hear his voice or you'll turn to dust'. Propaganda by the British as usual.

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Sakura7 · 12/09/2019 15:39

Voila, Isabelle - I would understand if this was happening in the 80s or if he was planning on marching down the Falls Road singing God Save The Queen. But it was 2013!

Yep Finedane I'm in Dublin.

1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:44

Most you'd expect in Dublin would to get a tremendous slagging for being a Brit! Grin

I once dated a British Army soldier - even slept in the barracks in Windsor (not sure the queen would have approved?) but my Dad couldn't have cared less lol. And he'd be a Republican at heart!

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1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:45

I would understand if this was happening in the 80s or if he was planning on marching down the Falls Road singing God Save The Queen. PMSL

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Sakura7 · 12/09/2019 15:45

Apart from to teach the English that 'this man is so bad, you can't even hear his voice or you'll turn to dust'.

And yet we had to listen to Ian bloody Paisley and his hateful rants. It was quite bizarre being a kid and listening to this person who quite clearly despised us all for even existing. I think RTE were right not to dub him though, let us see and hear him for what he was. Of course as far as Britain was concerned he was a friend and ally.

whyamidoingthis · 12/09/2019 15:49

@ShivD What I want to know is why it gets called the ‘troubles’ (not by anyone here, in general) as it was more than a bit of trouble. What has to happen for it to be termed a war?

We're good at understatement here. Global recession = Downturn, WW2 = The Emergency, the famine = the hunger, a roaring alcoholic = fond of the drink, a soft day = it's not really raining but I'm soaked.

1FineDane · 12/09/2019 15:49

I remember him being on the news almost every bloody night shouting some sort of hatred about the Irish. And him a man of the cloth! Grin

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Voila212 · 12/09/2019 16:01

Well then Sakura that was ridiculous!! The only danger he was in is being slagged about whatever soccer team he followed. Ian paisley scared me when I was young, he seemed so full of hate for everything Irish and Catholic.

Straycats · 12/09/2019 16:06

Souwest gives a very good account and this has and still does impact on the Catholic Nationalists. I lived there throughout the troubles, where jobs, housing, voting (boundary changes and heavy mobs) everything impacts on the Catholic's as power still is mainly controlled by Protestants. My sister and I have had our lives threatened, found my local voting station 20 plus miles away. My Secondary school Stella Maris (now closed because of intimidation) built in high density Protestant area, so buses routinely did not turn up and had to change out of school uniform for safety. My sister o was turned down for jobs whilst her unqualified Protestant friends had no problems. The list could go on, but living under a blanket of fear, vigilance. My husband is English and so too are my children, they have never had to worry about work or any other issue.

ShiveringCoyote · 12/09/2019 16:07

Dubbing Ian Paisley would have been far more welcomed by far more people.

The difference in the reporting, portrayal and subsequent education of NI ROI and Britain within England and Wales (I find generally Scottish people more informed) has lead to some bizarre and downright wrong beliefs of what really happened. The fact that not so long ago refugees from the UK were fleeing civil war and now we have the likes of Nigel Farage etc and their fear mongering is more than ironic.

7salmonswimming · 12/09/2019 16:14

but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I know not the point of the thread, but this did make me snort. The sentence is preposterous, and especially so in the context of the discussion!

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