Prams and buses!

[bluedungareesandspottytrainers]

Hi!

First time mum but long time poster (I've nc!)

I'm getting the bus with my baby today. The journey takes about 45 mins and I'm already worrying about it 🤦🏻‍♀️ He will sleep the journey I would imagine and is not a baby that cries a lot so that is not my worry.

I have to be there for a certain time so my plan is to get the earlier bus just in case there's already a pram / wheelchair user on board.

But what if I'm on the bus and someone with a wheelchair wants to get on? My pram doesn't fold down. Do I get off? I've no idea what the etiquette is for this and don't want to be a nob!

I'm aware I'm worrying over a hypothetical situation. I'm a bit stressed about some other things so I think I've blown this out of proportion 🙈

@hoxtonbabe I’d hope so too, I think that probably increases the number of “I’m not getting off”’s with the worry of it costing them again. Most I’ve heard lead with “I’ve already paid” but drivers/companies etc don’t seem to put it anywhere.. maybe if it was printed on the little priority for wheelchairs sign that’d help reassure women with tiny babies they aren’t going to be stuck in a housing scheme they don’t know with no way to get where they were going.

@RuffleCrow I’ve had the same as you, the stranger ones were the ones who were completely unable to leave home alone, couldn’t use taxis or public transport or manage anything even putting the bins out but had appeared mystically in front of you solo in a busy town 20minutes from home and were baffled when asked how did you get here today? Like genuinely asking because an assessor will ask you this on the spot too. Also had a chef, in work, who couldn’t prepare a meal not even with assistance. The chancers ruin it for any genuine person.

@RuffleCrow

I get that some will exaggerate but how do you know who is pulling a fast one or not when faced with the disabled person at the bus stop. It’s easy to say some people exaggerate their disability to gain higher rate benefits and I don’t disagree that it happens, but that doesn’t mean because some people applying for PIP, ESA, etc over egg their claim wheelchair users should be treated with a certain level of suspicion = I won’t give up my pram space.

That said, the issue isn’t really about you/pram user getting chucked off, what I see 99% of the time is the pram user not wanting to fold up the pram, unless the driver is nuts as described by pumpkin then as long as pram is folded everyone can get on and stay on, and all is well.

The odd rare times a parent folds the pram the person folding will usually get some help, I’ve even see old men and women hold the child, or a bag, etc ( I certainly will always assist if I’m not crammed at the back ) but for the most part the pram user doesn’t even want to do that, and that’s where it becomes selfish

@Lunafortheloveogod

You’re right it’s not made clear that you can get a transfer ticket ( I’m assuming you can) but you’ve given me something to look into. I’m only aware of the transfer ticket as I’m a non driver so I rely on busses /used it all my life so I’ve been in situations where the driver has had to hand them out, but I guess if someone is an occasional user then you wouldn’t know that and it also depends on where you live and if they even do the whole transfer ticket thing????

I've had a look at the law as I was curious and it looks to me that the case that sets a precedent on this says that people occupying the wheelchair space should be asked to move to another part of the bus - it doesn't mention people being asked to get off the bus, and it also says that the driver doesn't have to ask someone to move if it would be unreasonable for them to move - so I think if there's no space to put the folded down pushchair on the bus then it could definitely be argued that it would be unreasonable to make a mother and baby get off the bus in the middle of nowhere. I think the solution to all this would be for people to be reasonable and accommodating to each other and to be patient and to help someone out if they're struggling rather than throw them off the bus - I wonder if anyone offered to fold the pram down and stow it for the woman in the case while she held her sleeping child or if she was somehow expected to magically deal with it on her own.
I would definitely move to make way if someone offered help, but would never risk trying to hold my baby and fold and store my pram at the same time on a moving bus accelerating and braking sharply constantly in city traffic - there'd be too high a risk of falling and injuring the baby.
And although disabled people fought for wheelchair spaces, the luggage racks to stow prams and bags have been removed in the process to make the spaces to make a space that's shared between both.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules

There's a mum near me who can't take both of her children on a bus at the same time, she has to have another person with her when they use the bus because there aren't 2 wheelchair spaces, which means that 1adult and child gets on a bus while the other adult and child waits for the next bus with available wheelchair space, adult and child who got on the bus first then waits at their destination for the other adult and child. Imagine living your life like that because you have 2 children who need wheelchairs.

I feel so so sorry for all these parents who class themselves as vulnerable and have the terrible fear they might be asked to fold or get of a bus because a wheelchair user needs to use the wheelchair space.
Imagine worrying about that every time you go on a bus. It must be so hard.
I really think we need to have more sympathy for these people, it must be so hard.
How dare a wheelchair user need to use the wheelchair space and upset the parent.
On the other hand why do these parents not realise that for them this will only last a couple of years. Then all being well they will not need the space.
The person in the wheelchair always will.
So fold or move. Stop being so bloody selfish.
Everyone is a car crash away from needing a wheelchair.

I think some folk would really prefer it if the cripples just stayed at home, out of the way, out of sight.. we're mostly already sat down so if we could just shut up as well, that'd be grand.

Not to worry folks, after no deal Brexit, most of us will die off anyway so your lives will be simpler and easier when you have to waste less time thinking of anyone else but yourselves :)

I'm worried people think I wouldn't have got off the bus 🤦🏻‍♀️ I most definitely would! I guess I asked as I hadn't really considered it before (never got the bus with pram!) and I know it might sound daft but i didn't want to offend anyone by offering to move for them. I certainly don't see myself as vulnerable as I have a baby. I'm quite capable of catching another bus if required I was just overthinking! :-)

Anyway I got the bus successfully 😂 and dh is home from business trip now so we are back to two cars so no need to buy a fold down buggy etc :-)

Hope I haven't upset anyone with this thread I honestly was just trying to be considerate.

You've not upset me bluedungarees but one or two other posters seem to be right bumholes.

Glad your journey went well :D

No bus drivers I’ve had have ever asked a pram to move for a wheelchair they just tell them they haven’t got any space and drive on. I even insisted one day that there was room for the wheelchair because there was only my pram on the bus and the bus driver was all arsey. We did both fit in luckily.

I don't think the moment of need os graded according to how long the need will last.l samcro Plenty of wheelchair users have fluctuating or improving conditions. Plenty of mothers and babies have invisible disabilities which could make moving very difficult or will then havebto use pushchairs for an extended peiod of time. It's not a 'wheelchair trumps all' situation.

Don’t worry OP, everyone knows you would have behaved in a more considerate manner towards people who NEED to use a wheelchair, unlike some of the selfish arses on here. Bet they’re the same ones who throw a temper tantrum because a disabled person uses the parent & child spot, to park closer to the door or because there are no disabled spots left. Whaat about meee? I’m so vulnerable because I’ve got a baaaby.

I take it you don't live in a rural area bluedungarees ! It's a completely different matter if you live somewhere built up and won't have to wait two hours on a narrow grassy verge with a buggy and a baby whilst drivers go past at 70mph.

wait two hours on a narrow grassy verge with a buggy and a baby whilst drivers go past at 70mph.

Now imagine doing that for four hours, in a wheelchair, because some selfish arse of a parent refuses to fold their stroller and tries to actually compare their refusal to take a tiny child out of a pram, compared to the person who CAN’T get out of THEIR chair!

And most adult wheelchair users i see out and about are accompanied by another able bodied adult who can surely assist to some degree.

I agree with you rufflecrow about the lack of logic about parents with children being in a temporary situation - by that logic someone in a wheelchair with an amputation waiting for an artificial limb who might be in a wheelchair for less than 6 months could be asked to get off the bus for a mother and baby because they will be in need for longer! And in another hypothetical situation would it really be right that someone young and fit in a wheelchair temporarily could ask a mother recovering from a traumatic birth and caesarian section with twins in a large buggy that wouldn't fold down small enough (let alone trying to fold it down while holding 2 newborns) to get off the bus to make way for them and be left on a kerbside somewhere random to deal with the needs of her newborn twins until the next bus comes along. And what about wheelchair users who can get out and walk and fold their wheelchair down?
And for disabled people using the bus, can you imagine how much harder it would be getting the bus with all the limitations it involves, if not only do you not know if there will be space for you or not to get on, but also you could be asked to get off the bus at any time along the journey, maybe more than once, if someone else comes along and wants the space?

Oh its about safety of the precious baby now is it..

Buses aren't safe. No seatbelts, no tie downs for prams/chairs/whatever, loose stuff.
In a bus crash, passengers are at risk.

Don't get on buses with a baby is safety is your issue.

You ever stop to think why many adult wheelchair users are out with an able bodied person?

Firstly, we are a minority, the chances are that person is a friend, relative or partner - not a carer.

Secondly, if the world were a little more accessible, and a little less entitled selfish arseholes were in it... some of us would be able to do far more WITHOUT requiring an adult, able bodied person to accompany us.

Mummymummy, you seem to be under the mistaken idea that people who can stand and take a few steps can do so without pain or discomfort, safely, easily, repeatedly - this is very rarely the case.

Most of the 'young and very fit' people in folding chairs are those who have spinal injuries and cannot walk at all.

Most of the 'can stand/transfer' people are those suffering chronic long term pain and health conditions that mean they should avoid standing/transfering because its doing them further damage.

But you obviously know best and hey, all cripples have someone with them at all times to supervise, lift them, magic up spaces... and no, we have NO idea at all how hard it might be if we got kicked off transport, can't get on transport, can't make connections... None whatsoever. Public transport for wheelchair users is a fucking BREEZE, truly it is.

"wait two hours on a narrow grassy verge with a buggy and a baby whilst drivers go past at 70mph."

Don't do that. Get a better pushchair - ie one that folds one-handed, or whilst baby very small, get a sling.

It might seem a bit daunting before you've done it the first time, but folding pushchairs was something all parents did, before buses were made more accessible (and things like steps to get on, and entrances halved by fixed handrail were removed).

Actually Edith i did carry my daughter for 7 months in a sling for this reason. I now have chronic sciatica, prolapse and stomach muscles which have never knitted back together. So mothers are expected to permanently damage their own physical health for the sake of others. What a surprise.

@WiddlinDiddlin you're not coming across very well.

RuffleCrow why? because they say it as it is.
most of the people I know who use wheelchairs will do for life. that is from very early child hood ......for ever. my own dd has used one since she was tiny. the parent of an nt child with have this problem for a few months. that is why they don't campaign, they just grab stuff that is there to make life more equal for disabled people.

Neither are you tbh Ruffle

i really wish the wheelchair space was only used for wheelchairs. that way this problem would not arise.

By describing how carrying a heavy baby in a sling for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 7 months rather than giving my postnatal body a chance to heal, damaged my physical health, @x2boys? Is that offensive to you?