Prams and buses!

[bluedungareesandspottytrainers]

Hi!

First time mum but long time poster (I've nc!)

I'm getting the bus with my baby today. The journey takes about 45 mins and I'm already worrying about it 🤦🏻‍♀️ He will sleep the journey I would imagine and is not a baby that cries a lot so that is not my worry.

I have to be there for a certain time so my plan is to get the earlier bus just in case there's already a pram / wheelchair user on board.

But what if I'm on the bus and someone with a wheelchair wants to get on? My pram doesn't fold down. Do I get off? I've no idea what the etiquette is for this and don't want to be a nob!

I'm aware I'm worrying over a hypothetical situation. I'm a bit stressed about some other things so I think I've blown this out of proportion 🙈

Was there not a court case a few years ago where it was ruled that wheelchairs should legally have priority?

I have a heavy non folding pram which I do take on buses but have also just bought a folding lie flat pram from Aldi. It was only £70 and is perfect for the bus or train.

Thinking about it more I think it's the attitude of bus drivers here that makes it difficult - if I could be given time to fold pushchair and sort bags out etc without the bus speeding off in the middle of it then it might seem more doable. Also local people don't seem friendly or helpful on the buses - I once politely asked a man who was taking up 2 seats if he could move across a little so 3 year old could sit down (he can't stay on his feet on the bus the way the drivers brake and accelerate sharply), it was the only seat on the bus available and the man actually shouted at me before eventually agreeing to move over slightly so DS1 could fit on the seat, DS1 then spent the whole journey terrified because of the shouting - he then spent the whole journey whispering to me that he didn't want to sit there and I had to look like a passive aggressive nutcase reassuring him that he was safe and the man was just a bit grumpy! It was a really cringy journey!!

I didn't drive when DD1 was born and our buses were old ones with steps. I used to put the carry cot over two seats (then stand next to it so I could secure it) and fold the pram.

If you don't want to fold it, you need to get off the bus

In London if a wheelchair user comes on the bus, they need the space and there is no space to put your folded pushchair/buggy then you have to get off. Even if there is space to put a folded pushchair/buggy if you can't fold it within 2 minutes you will be told to get off.

As buses are different sizes in London so have different size luggage spaces and can have different number of doors even on the same route, it is completely down to luck whether you will need to get off.

If you are going to take the bus frequently it is worth getting a sling. I have got on a bus once with 5 wheelchair users. 2 where in their wheelchairs while the rest were sitting in the priority seats with their wheelchairs folded. If I hadn't been using a sling I wouldn't have been able to get on as there was no luggage space left.

On another route that randomly users smaller buses with one door if a wheelchair user comes on you have to get off as there is no luggage space. If the bus has two doors then the bus driver may allow you to block the exit door if a wheelchair user comes on the bus.

Sorry if this is a silly question but if you’re folding the pushchair who holds on to the baby and your baby bag? Or do you all have pushchairs that you can fold with one hand? Also once folded how do you stop it falling all over the place?

I had a foldable pushchair when my ds was young - I folded and unfolded it repeatedly in my living room until I could do it easily with one hand before I took it out on my own. Lots of people were happy to help, so thankfully it wasn't often that I really had to do it myself.

ColaFreezePop I think it would be similar in the city that I live in and I'm still not fully understanding why one group's right for equal access to public transport means that another group then has reduced access. Luckily though at least in my city I think there's a lot more space provided for wheelchairs and pushchairs on the buses than it sounds like there is in London - I've been on a small single deck, single door bus with one wheelchair and 4 pushchairs squeezed on, so luckily I've not been asked to get off yet

Why are posters banging on about equal rights for pushchairs, because they’re bloody well carrying too much stuff? Wheelchair users FOUGHT for wheelchair spaces on buses, yet you lot are gurning about equality. FFS catch yourselves on.

Exactly Fancynewvagina The only reason those spaces are there, is because wheelchair users fought hard to get them.
Being in a wheelchair is not a choice, unlike having a baby.

@MrGsFancyNewVagina @finnmcool

Lol @ equal rights for prams!

I can’t tell you the amount of arguments I’ve had over this.

I’ve started to report drivers that don’t tell pram users to fold up or get off. If all the drivers actually upheld the wheelchair users legal right, we would have less entitled parents coveting a space that they should be kissing the feet of disabled groups for!

It wasn’t that many years ago that only a handful of busses had “space” it was through the determination of others that made it so all busses had to legally have a space, and if you are my age and in London you’d remember the route master didn’t even have a pram space other than a little cubby hole that if you were lucky would fit two folded up strollers... we all just walked everywhere instead so I really can’t get my head around all this “ why should I fold up my pram/get off” business.

I always remember the cow that was at the bust stop with a wheelchair user but she managed to get on first as naturally she didn’t need to wait for the ramp, then flat out refused to fold her pram because her son was sleeping ( she was with her mother MIL) and the stupid bus driver told wheelchair there was nothing he could do and shut the doors in her face. It was from that I said I Will start reporting drivers.

I had a folding buggy for a newborn. A Maclaren 4 season. It lay flat so they do exist.

Hope you're got your hard hat on op, nothing gets some MNers more riled than the audacity of a womam only having two arms, one or more babies and the need to use public transport. I remember being told on here i needed to get off with my baby in the middle of endless farmland with no pavement rather than risk inconveniencing someone in a wheelchair. Never mind whether or not the mother or child in question might invisible disabilities of their own. The truth is, buses need to be bigger and or better designed and more frequent to accomodate all users.

Ds is almost 6 months we’ve encountered one wheelchair user and use buses very regularly as were fairly rural and have paediatric apps along with going out for anything other than basics from the local shop. She was a lovely woman and waited for me to switch into the pram side (coach built lovely bugger of a pram takes wiggling into it side ways and there was a push chair in there when I got on originally)

The only issues I’ve ever had were old ladies and shopping trolleys.. if they pull it in 3 inches we can all fit but no it’s flung in the middle of the pram bit and they just stare like you have 5 heads when you ask them if they could move it back slightly (no longer using coach built pram and still have that issue)

And more of a question for anyone that’s ever had to get off do they refund your ticket? What if you’d only x amount of cash on you if you get off in a strange place there’s no guarantee you’ll be near or can find a cash point to lift more and well you’d already paid to get to where ever. Our buses state they don’t always have change n won’t accept £20’s unless your tickets over £15 or you’ll be given a cash slip to take to the main office (30 miles from me) to exchange.

The point is Ruffle that wheel chair users fought for those spaces ,push chair users didn't ,if buses have both all well and good if they don't than of course wheel chair users ,have more right to use a WHEEL CHAIR space than a buggie not sure why this is so.hard to.understand ?

And btw Ruffle I am the mother of a child with severe autism so I know all about invisible disabilities .

I think the other thing to remember is that MNers aren't, generally speaking, huge public transport users. Most probably only had to get their babies to and from the SUV so don't really know what it"s like . I use public transport a lot and the demographic is mostly students and OAPs and a few less posh mothers with kids like myself.

Join the club @x2boys.

They're general purposed mixed use spaces round here with wheelchair priority. I'm not sure many wheelchair users would be proud of forcing a lone woman off a bus with a baby in the middle of nowhere tbh. I don't think that's what they fought for. It shouldn't be either/or.

There'd be more wheelchair users on buses, if we didn't have this fear EVERY. SINGLE. TRIP we make, that we won't get on the bus, that we will be made to feel awful if we do, that there will be a confrontation, that we will be unable to get off the bus at the right place, that we will miss a vital connection, that we will be stranded and unable to get to where we need to be.

This anxiety the OP is feeling over one bus trip - imagine that was EVERY public transport journey, for the rest of your life.

So if you want to take a pram or pushchair or baby on the bus regularly:

Consider a sling if you can.

If you can't carry in a sling, buy your pram or pushchair with bus travel in mind, and check you can fold down one handed.

Pare down your baby kit so that you can carry that on your back and not rely on it having to be on the pram/chair.

Leave enough time to get off the bus, change buses, miss a bus - factor this into your journey. Yes if everything goes well you'll arrive early, if it doesn't it will be a faff.... but thats what disabled public transport users have to do every single time.

If you must travel with something that doesnt fold, is bulky and public transport is your only option again, factor in extra time.

I have to carefully consider every trip on public transport, what might go wrong, what do I need to account for.

I have to select the equipment I will use appropriately - I use a manual chair on buses/trains because whilst the powerchair is better for me, if there is no assistance to get off a train, I am either stuck on the train or Ill be jamming a front castor in the door and stopping that train from leaving for all of us until I do get assistance.

If booked assistance doesn't arrive to get me on the train, I am stranded on a platform.
In my manual chair which causes me pain, I can at a push, get out and throw it on the train and crawl on, should the assistance not show up.

I have to consider what bags I can carry, on the powerchair I can load tons of bags on the back, they make it more bulky but its heavy so i wont tip it over.

On the manual chair I can't, the more I load the back, the more it tips, the harder it is to push and the more likely I am to go over backwards particularly going up a slope.

Even if I have booked assistance to get on the train, that doesn't mean the train will have a space for me. I could be refused access, I could spend a journey with people knocking into me or sitting on me (has happened) or leaning on me which causes lasting pain.

So yeah if you think it is a faff ensuring you are using the right equipment for the transport you are using, building in extra time for delays, full buses, getting off and getting on the next one... just remember, thats going to happen to you maybe a handful of times, in the brief time your child is tiny.

For me, and other wheelchair users, its for always, forever, for life.

I’ve just had this happen this morning OP. I got on the bus with my toddler to go to a midwife appt. I normally don’t take the pram but did today because we had quite a bit to do. As soon as I stepped on the driver said I’d have to fold it down. Easy enough done but I had a full nappy bag, a toddler, I’m 29 weeks pregnant and my brain just went to mush. Thankfully the other women with prams shouted that it was ok and they could move up a bit so we all fitted but I did have a panic. I’m glad it worked out for you, it’s especially hard when baby is still in a carrycot because they’re so much more difficult to fold.

When my DC were in prams and pushchairs, buses weren’t accessible - well not here anyway.

We all managed fine to get about on buses you just learned how to fold quickly - unlike wheelchair users who just couldn’t use buses.

Not being practiced at getting on and off a bus without space really isn’t in the same league as having to use a wheelchair - that’s why wheelchairs have priority.

The OP has at least had consideration by asking, hence why she hasn’t had a bashing.

@Lunafortheloveogod i would like to think if you had to get off and you asked bus driver for a transfer ticket they would give you, I don’t agree that you have to be out of pocket if you were asked to leave.

@widdlin

That’s just it, I’ve sat there with my mouth open in shock at the way wheelchair users have been treated, some will stand their ground and insist on getting on but most can’t be bothered with the hassle/dirty looks/arguments and wait for another bus.

As you say you had to think about the chair you use, how’s much you carry etc but that doesn’t seem to be a factor for parents that use public transport anymore.

I’ve started to report drivers that don’t tell pram users to fold up or get off. If all the drivers actually upheld the wheelchair users legal right, we would have less entitled parents coveting a space that they should be kissing the feet of disabled groups for!

Yes I agree with this. I reported a bus driver who refused to allow a child in a wheelchair on the bus despite the fact that I got off with my pram to allow him on! There was me and another woman with prams on the bus and I was happy to get off but for some bizarre reason the driver was still refusing to allow him on, I called tfl to complain, and they took it very seriously. They were surprised I called since I had a pram because so many people with prams even don’t want to move but I was really disgusted with the driver.

I don't agree with your hierarchy of vulnerabilities. Lifelong public transport user here - there were definitely buggy spaces on buses prior to the equality act. Not sure why one vulnerable group of people should be told to 'kiss the feet' of another. Smacks of old style power heirarchies to me. This is where mn gets odd. Usualy in capital letters.