To think relying on working tax credits and housing benefit is a bad idea

[InkedGreen]

My sister has a very decent amount coming in every month - similar to what I have as a professional with 10+ years experience.

However it's all top up earnings and she's on a low paid job two days a week.

She's quite happy to stay on 2 days even though all her children are at school.

Aibu to think she's foolish to rely on these topups and not try to get a better job or increase her hours? If they try to reform benefits she could very quickly be very poor and I'm concerned even if she isn't!

Recently overheard a conversation where a woman was saying unless she relied on her parents for childcare (which she didn’t feel was fair), she couldn’t afford to work. Said she would lose most of her benefits if she returned to work and have to pay childcare fees so it financially didn’t make sense.

I’ve read about this online a lot but never heard a person say it IRL until I overheard that conversation. I think it’s rather sad that people are forced into a situation where they become reliant on the benefit system to survive because working doesn’t really better them in any way.

The minimum wage isn’t enough.

Yup, plenty of undervalued low-paid necessary jobs in rich areas, with wealthy people being quite happy to underpay those who provide their food, clean their houses (and the streets, and the public buildings they visit) and look after their children or their sick or elderly family members. If all the poor people are moved hundreds of miles away, who is going to do this work?

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Do you pay them enough so they dont have to claim top ups

That’s very subjective though. Most on top ups will be working part time. A part time salary is never going to cover an adult, children and house costs etc in most cases. That’s not the employers fault. It’s a choice to work part time.

I work ft, went back to ft work when DD was 3 months old. Progression has been slow because there's been no money for training courses etc until recently. I earn more than NMW, and still get WTC, and work 30-40 hours a week.

Even with full time work people need to make choices on affordability ie where they can live, the number of children they can support. The problem isn’t wages, it’s people choosing things they can’t afford to do.

Cheapest rent possible. Cheapest shopping/groceries possible. Don't have heating on really when I should. Don't smoke, don't drink, second hand furniture, can't remember the last time I had my hair cut.... Ad infinitum. Even the WiFi I've just had installed was a money saving choice because GCSE year and DD needs access to the online portals to study/revise. Mobile data was costing more. My biggest outlays I have no control over, rent, council tax, travel to work, work uniform, school uniform - there's no cutting back there to be had. And one child, 15. Not sure she'd fit if I tried to shove her back in!
The biggest reason I need to claim WTC and CTC is my ex walking away and CHOOSING not to support his child. His choice, NOT mine, all his, I have tried and tried to no avail. When DD was born I could afford her, he had (and does now) a decent paying job, I had a job. We didn't need anything else. He decided to go and leave his responsibility behind - that's my choice is it? I didn't have a crystal ball unfortunately!
And I'd bet you quite happily use services that low paid workers provide, probably regularly too. That imo is utter hypocrisy.

Hederex, I totally relate & like your point. Admire you for sticking to a proper plan, 3 days, then 4 days, then 5 days. And it is really hard to adjust to f/t work after any of: maternity leave, part-time work, studying (at any level).

I mean why don't we all just accept we're just ALL mum's, juggling a lot of balls (in often very tough circunstances), in a society that still favours the male as well-paid / main-breadwinner model; deserving of respect from everyone, especially other mum's & that NO ONE (not even a relative) has the right to judge another mum's choices or decide whether they can afford children or not!?! Its the individual only who decides. Frankly when I was main-breadwinner those 18 years (& on eventually salary of 28k - I started as a Careers Adviser on 16k aged 25, with 2 degrees), I would have loved to earn 37k+ & thereby afforded a pension, to put money into savings, to afford a Help to Buy ISA, etc. but on my income, huubby's 7k-12k (2001-2014) TA salary, but that wasn't an option, as the expected female job roles of the 5 Cs are still rife (e.g. Cleaning, Caring, Clerical, Counselling...you get the gist)!!!
Stop bashing other mum's & start voting for decent FEMALE politicians who will support & legislate female friendly policies.

I love you Crustytoenail!!! 👍

I work Monday to Friday, 7am to 3pm so pick my kids up from school everyday and spend every evening and weekend with them.

Apologies if this has already been covered but what will people on benefits do about a pension at retirement age? 9% of my wage is put into the pension scheme and work contribute another 11%, so roughly 6k per year is being saved. I should also be mortgage free by then but I still worry I won't have enough money to live on.

Currently Katey there is a state pension and pension credits for less well.off pensioners ,I'm guessing those pensioners that rent either privately or social housing can continue to claim housing benefit?

See both sides of this. On one hand I don't believe the calculations should work out that those who choose to work part time in low paid jobs should get as much money as those working full time in demanding jobs.

But when I was a single parent I claimed working tax credit because going and getting another job wasn't that simple when you have school runs and childcare to work around. The system is there to help people who work but are on low income - they are essentially subsidising the poor pay from employers.

I was probably better off as a single parent working part time claiming tax credits than I am now my dc are older and I've increased my hours. I can see why that pisses some people off but there are many people who don't have a choice.

None of your business. She has her reasons for doing the hours she does.

My DS are 16 and 12yrs and l work 2 days with tax credits adding to my income...and l will continue like this until my benefits are cut for reasons that are only known to me

Good job most of us work as much as we need to if we can and pay taxes then isn’t it...

Yup, plenty of undervalued low-paid necessary jobs in rich areas, with wealthy people being quite happy to underpay those who provide their food, clean their houses (and the streets, and the public buildings they visit) and look after their children or their sick or elderly family members. If all the poor people are moved hundreds of miles away, who is going to do this work?

I agree that low-paid work is shite and I don't think too much of people in Zone 1 paying peanuts for cleaners, for example. Happy to fund tax credits with my own taxes, wish it were employers instead.

But why are we worried about this? What will happen if poor people can't access Zone 1 work?

Well, what do you think will happen? Will the rich people (who, after all, want their takeaways delivered, their toilets cleaned, their taxis driven, etc) realise they need to pay more for services? Or will there be harsher sanctions on the poor who have been shipped out of the town centres, to force them into taking such work even though the travel costs eat much of what they earn and the travel time exhausts them? And will their complaints be met with 'Well, why don't you get a better job?' or 'You should have worked harder at school'?

At the moment much of the rich people’s domestic crap is dealt with by migrant labour. Interesting to see what will happen if this disappears with Brexit.

Of course vast numbers providing cheap unskilled labour is one big reason why a certain group of people is vehemently pro Brexit and another group vehemently against it.

Whats this choosing a part time job bollocks Under UC you have to take any work OFFERED. An employer has to OFFER you a job first.

Or are you seriously suggesting you can force an employer to give you work by holding a gun or a knife to his head,

Of course i suppose you could always take a pootle around Google.. see if you can find anything out about your potential employers private life and use good old fashioned blackmail. e,g. "unless you give me a job i will tell your wife about your affair"

I dont see what else people can do

OR "unless you give me increased full time guaranteed hours that are NOT intermittent and inconsistent i will tell your wife/HMRC/ delete as appropriate.

I'm a lone parent to older children and work enough to not need HB, I do get WTC and CTC and unless you have a top rate support network around you consisting of at least two, healthy, retired grandparents plus a cleaner it's just not feasible.

Alternatively you could just have my mum who seems to have an allergy to sitting down and cleans for me once a week, take the DC to appointments and attends parents evenings and meetings at the school as well as providing wraparound childcare free of charge. Without her there is no way I would cope with working the hours needed to work as LP and not claim HB (which is more than FT btw) and single handedly running a household and raising kids. There isn't enough hours in the day. With her, it's hard going. Without her I would probably live in squalor, have a mental breakdown or both.

I start a job next week. In a care home. NMW. 37 hours a week.
My DH has chronic pain and a life limiting disease so is unable to work.

Sorry, posted too soon.

I have applied for UC to help because I will need too ups for my rent. No other choice.
My DH has a good job when I met him. He didn't choose to get ill. I've been his carer for a while and worked part time. Now I have to go full time because we can't afford to live otherwise

Can you ask her how she managed to get a top-up to the same wage as a "proffesional in a job for 10 years?"
I work full-time but I'm self-employed and in first yr of UC so they do a top-up if my earnings give me less than 1400 per month. My rent is 750 plus council tax, bills and I have one child. Single parent. Am I missing something here?

I’m a single mum who works full time and still gets tax credits. I’m only able to work part time because my kids have amazing grandparents who help a lot with childcare and a dad who pays for their after school clubs so I can work. If I didn’t have those there’s no way I could work the hours I do.

I’m a senior youth worker and get paid pretty well for my profession but it’s still no enough to live on. If I was to move to a higher paying career who would do my job? I’m good at what I do and make difference to the young people and families I work with.

I’ve got a tiny pension and do worry about my later years but right now there’s nothing I can do about it.

"Also it's very unwise to get used to this, because any change of circumstance will cause one to be re-assessed under Universal Credit rather than tax credits / housing benefit, which is very minimal compared to tax credits/HB which seem quite generous. IMO your sister would be better off improving her earning potential now that she has fewer childcare responsibilities."

So does this mean that if she decides to take up work now, it will count as change of circumstances and she will be moved to universal credit? That may be one reason why she is not taking up work? IT could severely rock the boat and she may be left destitute under UC....so why would she have any incentive to make a change?

Can understand your thinking. However if there are changes in benefits there will be mass revolting if anyone has a reduction in income no matter the reason eg no effort to become independent.

I think it’s a bad idea - she needs to maximise her employment future now / when the funds dry up after her children leave she will be stuck on a low income. Don’t think it’s wise you should say anything though - it would have to be something she wants - comes down to self respect in the long run !

God forbid anyone should want to spend as much time as possible with their children 🙄

It's not always practical to work more. Through circumstance my SIL is alone with 3 children under 8 and cant afford to work more than 20 hours a week. She used to then got in rent arrears as her income wasn't covering her outgoings. She is in no way living the life of Riley and still struggles but luckily not in as much debt now.