To think relying on working tax credits and housing benefit is a bad idea

[InkedGreen]

My sister has a very decent amount coming in every month - similar to what I have as a professional with 10+ years experience.

However it's all top up earnings and she's on a low paid job two days a week.

She's quite happy to stay on 2 days even though all her children are at school.

Aibu to think she's foolish to rely on these topups and not try to get a better job or increase her hours? If they try to reform benefits she could very quickly be very poor and I'm concerned even if she isn't!

[SiliconHeaven]

Powers that be

[blackcat86]

Raising children is one thing but why should I work to pay for someone else to stay home with their kids? Unfortunately a lot of women havent pushed their careers prior to having children and then leave themselves vulnerable. Personally I wouldn't rely on anyone else to pay for our accommodation or food especially not a government that doesn't give a shit about you.

[WhoKnewBeefStew]

It'll be fine for her at the moment, however she's not building up her pension, growing her career or putting money away (I presume this), and most of these benefits will stop when her dc grow up and leave home.

When I split from my dh my friend tried to convince me to pack up work, or go into a job with reduced hours because 'I was a single parent with 2 kids and I'd never cope with my job, plus I could work less and get paid the same'. I didn't and I'm now doing well in my career and buying my own home, putting money aside etc. Her dc are now a lot older and one has moved out, she's seeing her benefits lower and she's in a min wage job with little opportunity to progress. She rents and can see she's going to have little or no opportunities to ever buy her own home either

It's a very short sighted thing to do if you 'can' do things differently.

[TryingAndFailing39]

I think people generally, and I include myself in this bracket, work out the best way of paying as little as possible tax, and the best way of getting as much money from the government as possible.

I don’t think I know any mums, or anyone else, that does this!!
The people I know who get ‘top ups’ work full time on a low income. Most people I know work and pay tax without getting government help on top. The mums I know who are SAHM have husbands who earn enough that they don’t need to work and they don’t claim off the government either.

[megletthesecond]

Yes, this lakie "Running a home and rearing children is a lot of work for a single person to do and I think it's great for kids to come home to a parent who has the time and energy to talk through stuff with them."

I've worked three days a week since I've had my dc's. Mentally and physically I'm not great. I also have a younger DC who needs huge support and has violent meltdowns. For all our sakes I'm hoping to be part time until they leave school. It's not ideal but I'm already at breaking point. Three days is better than breaking and not being able to work at all.

[YouSayPotatoesISayVodka]

Who doesn’t love a benefit bashing thread?

[TryingAndFailing39]

I think working very part time when your dc are all at school and also getting government help with no plans to ever work more hours is morally questionable (although I appreciate is completely legal). There are some people who work full time and still need help and in my opinion are much more deserving of ‘top ups’.
Many people of course just work and pay tax without any extra help particularly when they have no dc at home to look after

[mummymeister]

I would never bash anyone on benefits. they are an important part of what we are as a society.

what I would bash is able bodied people who arent caring for children with a disability who do the maths and sit on their arses. Its short sighted for them and their self esteem.

And if we want the benefits to increase to some whilst decreasing for others, then vote in a government that will do this. WTC allow employers to pay low wages.

[Brazenhussy0]

Yanbu. She's leaving herself in a very precarious position given she'll be moved to UC at some point. And that's before we start thinking about financially preparing herself for the future. Her income will drop when her DC are adults. (Does she have a resident DP/DH?)

[allthingsred]

Yanbu
Lots of people I work with are on u/c & what they get is more than what I earn. Esp with free school meals & able to claim other help on top. But I would hate to rely on the government for my income knowing at any point it could be stopped/changed etc.
Sadly a lot of people know their way around the system & being on benefits is bringing in a good income so why would they change.

[TryingAndFailing39]

I would never bash anyone on benefits. they are an important part of what we are as a society. what I would bash is able bodied people who arent caring for children with a disability who do the maths and sit on their arses. Its short sighted for them and their self esteem.

^this

[slipperywhensparticus]

I try working full time my kids get sick and I lose money I'm the only parent and I have no back up certainty not from their dad plus I have to pay around thirty pounds a day in childcare sixty in the holidays and I earn sixty two a day so.....that really doesnt work

[slipperywhensparticus]

My ex sits on his arse not working his latest excuse is a bad knee he is driving 161 miles today in a manual car with a "bad knee"

[ddl1]

Well, it's up to her, really. Presumably she knows the risks. If she ends up not being able to afford it, she can change her mind and work more hours - it's not as if she had taken herself totally out of the job market. And by that time, her children would be older; probably having longer school hours; less dependent on her attention when at home. Unless she's asking you for money, I don't think it should really be your concern (unless you think she's truly unaware of the risks).

[lauryloo]

i gave up work as i care for my 4 year old with a chromosome disorder. I feel guilty every day. Tax credits and her DLA make up what i would earn which is depressing.

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

her children are at school- schools finish c. 3pm- what time would work finish? Would she be running herself ragged and missing time with her children for an extra £10 a week...if so I dont blame her.
Then you have to factor in school holidays etc.

As another poster said dont hate the player hate the game!

[bluebeck]

If her work is low paid, how would increasing her hours help? Childcare would probably cost more than she could earn.

Is she a Lone parent?

If she worked FT she probably would still be entitled to Tax Credits.

The real issue here is that wages are way too low and so taxpayers are subsidising pay whilst Fat Cats get richer and richer with expanding profits.

I would rather see everyone earning a decent income and no need for top ups for anyone working FT.

How old are your DNs?

[dottiedodah]

I think it is easy to say she should be stepping up her hours ,but with 3 school age children ,After School care and Holiday cover can be expensive.I think it is probably a little bit annoying for you that she has a similar wage ,but Top Up Payments are there to help everyone .By the time the children are a bit older she will possibly look for more work then.Benefits are not exactly over generous at present ,so unless they remove them altogether she should be safe .Obviously if she can try to increase her prospects it would be wise to do so but she probably feels she has a lot going on at present!

[SnowJon]

Add in Child Maintenance payments which is not accounted for in all of this and then you see why...

Work doesn't pay for some.

[QueSera]

I totally agree with you OP. Public funds should be available for those who need them, not for people to have free time to themselves and not work. One of my friends is like this - she purposely keeps her work hours low so as to maximise her tax credits; if she works 'too many' hours she has to pay money back, so she just works the bare minimum and lives a very good lifestyle on tax credits.

Also it's very unwise to get used to this, because any change of circumstance will cause one to be re-assessed under Universal Credit rather than tax credits / housing benefit, which is very minimal compared to tax credits/HB which seem quite generous. IMO your sister would be better off improving her earning potential now that she has fewer childcare responsibilities.

[Ilovecolinjackson]

I topped up our income with WTC for a long time whilst building equity in our business, so to an extent I see the benefits of using the system. The time did come however when we had enough equity to make the business financially sound, take a decent wage and save for our future. So we increased our wage and came off WTC.

It think it's ok to use the benefit system, but it's not ok to rely on it for ever or dare I say use and abuse it.
I didn't feel bad being on WTC, it served its purpose well for me, it does feel good that I don't need it now.

[Metempsychosis]

The OP doesn’t seem to resent her sister - just thinks that she’s making risky choices that make her vulnerable in the future. However, I think the differnce between 5 days a week and 2 days in a low wage job wouldn’t make much difference - presumably she could go full time when and if the benefit system makes it worthwhile. Only upskilling to a better paid job with career progression would prevent her from being reliant on the goodwill of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

[mummymeister]

But all the time she is working a low paid low skilled job she is losing the skills that she has and making herself less and less attractive to an employer in the future. at some point, when the children leave school she will have to step up and do a full time job or certainly more hours and at that point will only be able to get lower skilled lower paid dead end jobs. How bloody depressing is that!

I take all the points about the cost of childcare. but again, less money paid out in benefits more could be used towards subsidising care. there are jobs out there from 9 - 3pm and yes, I get its a hassle to have to run from job to kids and you will of course miss out on some time with them. But why should I pay for your sister to have 6 weeks off with her kids in the summer when I dont get that with my own and many others dont either.

its heartbreaking to read on here from people who want to work but either because of their own health or their childrens they cant.

[SandyY2K]

I don't think YABU. You have a very valid point, but some people see benefits as an entitlement to live an easier life.

They have little desire to work/increase their hours.

At least she's actually working part time...it could be worse.

Perhaps she's doing a job she hates and has no inclination to develop herself or train for a better career.

[swingofthings]

Running a home and rearing children is a lot of work for a single person to do and I think it's great for kids to come home to a parent who has the time and energy to talk through stuff with them.
Yes, it's a lot of work, but of work shouldn't equal working as little as possible. Children actually benefit from seeing their parents working hard and growing up with a good work ethics.

As a single working mum myself when my children were little, I made friends with a number of mums who opted to not work or work as few hours possible, being able to enjoy a decent life topped up with benefits and good level of child maintenance.

Some of these mums are now in partnership with new partners who support them well, but the majority don't and 15 years later are finding themselves in poor paid jobs having to cope with a much more deprived life now that their kids have left education.

Some assumed they would find new partners to support them for the rest of their lives, others assumed they'd be able to get into decent paid jobs, especially those who opted to go to Uni, but the reality is that with little work experience, they have struggle to get onto the career ladder after the age of 40 when they found themselves competing with youngsters with more experience and energy than them.

I think this has come as quite a shock to these mums who thought they had the best of both world but fail to consider the long term effect.