AIBU in withdrawing DS from contact rugby in junior school?

[swearymary100]

My DS attends a private school that is strong in sport. He has attended since nursery, before I knew about his non-sporty-ness!
He is 9 and in Yr 4. This academic year Rugby moves from non-contact to contact. All the kids are getting mouth guards & headgear.
My DS is tiny. He weighs 3.4 stone and is 114cm tall - about size of average 5-6 year old. He has always been small & there is no-one in his year as little.
He is into music & dance & cross-country running; he is fit & very active. He hates rugby.

So, I want to withdraw him (if school consents) from contact rugby.
The risk of concussion & injury is too high given that his head will be at the chest/shoulder height of his peers.

I have researched this issue to death & for every expert saying 'don't be bloody stupid - ban tackling in schools' there is another one saying 'it's fine, stop being a precious twat'.

I know that all activity involves risks of accidents, but rugby deliberately encourages tackling and there is impact & concussion risk.

Does anyone have experience of this & AIBU?

My DS is tiny. He weighs 3.4 stone and is 114cm tall

For comparison, my 9 year old DS is 148cm tall and 38 kg, incredibly strong (he could easily floor me) and very, very clumsy and uncoordinated. He could easily injure someone your DS's size if he was made to tackle. I think I would share your concerns.

What does he think about not joining in? Is he worried that he would be picked on? How good exactly is he at cross country compared to the others? Could you frame it that instead of rugby, he's doing extra training for cross country as he's so good at it?

PE is not optional in secondary school, but rugby certainly is.

Rugby was not optional at my dcs' secondary.

therewere10 yes...my DD is just turned 11 but some of the boys in the years below her are taller than her already and pretty solid.

Girls too if it counts for much. OP if my son were as light as yours no way would I let him play contact rugby.

@underneaththeash I doubt that the school will allow you to withdraw him.
We have parents each year that try and fail. The headmaster's line is that all the children take part

If I as a parent write a letter every week stating my child isn’t taking part and the head tried to over rule me, i wouldn’t like to be him.

Or do you have a reasonable doctor? Surely the school can't argue with a doctor's note?

Until 11/12 contact in rugby is arm tackles only. Before contact you are taught how to avoid contact, how to safely contact the body, you are also taught single arm contact to use during the first season, rather than double arm.

I don’t know of anywhere the allows any form of head based contact until 14, and that is heavily controlled and in professionally coached clubs only, not schools.

I was a semi-pro until recently, I don’t know any schools locally who allow any head based contact and I have been a guest coach at many state and public schools over the years.

Schools rugby is heavily involved in the research to make rugby safer. Several of the recent changes to the professional game have come up through schools rugby. There are big international projects covering various areas of research.
That said, when there's a huge size difference a variety of sports can be an issue. Years ago we had a student who was a year ahead academically (comfortably so) but small for his age which would have been one of youngest in year below. He shone in cross country but didn't make any teams for anything else primarily due to physical development issues. But then in secondary schools there's usually enough in a games lesson to put together a touch game for the not quite ready/not as good.
I was under the impression it was touch until secondary so I'm a little surprised. I don't think there's any harm in asking but I'd be tempted to highlight what makes this a unique situation.

I don't know much about rugby at all but my husband coached 9-10 year olds last year and my son played. I hated it and couldn't watch. My son is not as small as yours but certainly was one of the smallest there. They all wore mouth guards and head gear, you can buy body armour too.

They did a lot of fitness drills - running and throwing the ball etc. They did tackling I'm sure they had to grab the waist no lower. They did rucks (I don't know what a ruck is but husband assured me it wasn't bad!) They didn't do scrums so you will be safe in that respect I don't think that starts until secondary age - 12? Is your son a fast runner? As he is little he would likely play on the wings and he would run with the ball, this is a slightly less risky position to play especially if you are fast people can't catch you. It's usually the small kids who play this position like my son.

My son didn't break any bones, he had several bruises on his legs but to be honest no different to being kicked in the shins with football boot studs! I have to say I felt like you didn't want him to play but he survived and for the most part enjoyed it.

Technique is more important than size. His size wouldn’t concern me at all.

However the fact he doesn’t want to do it is far more worrying. Full contact rugby needs full commitment.

And whilst the sessions might be compulsory, nobody does full contact without their full consent and cooperation.

DH has a 9 inch scar down his back from major surgery after a spinal injury in a rugby match as a child. I don’t care about “safer now” arguments - his arose from something that should not have happened even back then but was an error in a fast moving game that happened before anyone could intervene. Hell would freeze over before any child of mine played rugby.

I work in a school medical centre and everyone there says they won’t let their own sons play rugby. We hate rugby season and the training we had on concussion recently was terrifying. I think given your DS’s size it makes you even less unreasonable for not wanting him to be playing.

It’s standard in rugby that at yr 4 /9yr olds move from tag to contact. There are no scrums which involves the heads, it’s simply moving to tackling. At this age you have a mixture of sizes so my DS was smaller at 9 and found tackling more difficult but still plays now at age 12 where there only now moving onto the full scrums. Some DC dropped out when they moved to contact as they just didn’t enjoy it or were scared. Smaller DC tend to be faster and each DC in rugby is put into the position that best suits them. I wouldn’t be anxious at this stage. We are a big Rugby family having had a grandfather play for a top team, my older DS played at school and was the captain of his club and my two younger DS both play. My older DS was injured at age 14 and my nephew who played at top level did end up with concussion when he was 16. However I have friends DS who have broken limbs from playing football, hockey etc All sports have there risks but I know many mums who dislike rugby and seem more anxious about rugby due to the issue around concussion even though training around concussion has been set as standard for those involved in rugby . As a parent I have completed training on concussion and would know what to do. I would be asking your DS what he wants to do especially if it is compulsory in yr 4 as he may be the only DC not doing it.

“It’s standard in rugby that at yr 4 /9yr olds move from tag to contact”
Not in state schools it isn’t.

@bertrandrussell It is the case at many schools, I have coached quite a few sessions at state schools that progress in this way.

In addition to the points you mention, primary aged boys don't necessarily have the understanding/self control/ sense of responsibility to follow safety rules. Someone I know had a serious injury at age 11 playing rugby because another child purposefully stamped on him in a scrum, he couldn't play sport after that.

Yes, my DS was concussed in Year 6 by a boy who hid, then ran at him from nowhere and knocked him backwards to the ground. They were supposed to be practising rucking in pairs, not tackling. Because it was "rugby" the boy didn't get into any trouble. The boy was big, immature even for a 10 year old and thought he was better at rugby than he was. Boys like that will use rugby as an excuse for aggressive behaviour and the coaches need to be extremely firm and on it. My DS does still play rugby at secondary (his choice, not mine), but the coaches there are very hot on emphasising safe play.

Most private schools don't switch to contact until 11 I thought? (Under 12s games). I'm with you OP, independent school teacher here (I teach across Prep and Senior, but we dont start contact rugby until 11). When rugby season starts there's barely a class without someone in plaster/off concussed/back injury. And our littlest in the under 12s in the D team still don't play contact because of the risks.

Stand your ground!

BertrandRussell my DS play at club and schools. At the club it’s standard and when he was at his primary state school it was tag then contact from yr5.

Most private schools don't switch to contact until 11 I thought?

We play contact from under 9s and have enough other local schools that do so to have a fixture every week practically!

The game of rugby would not pass a modern day risk assessment.
What other school activity requires paramedics on the sidelines every match day.
My son plays, and loves rugby, unfortunately I sat through a terrifying lecture on Traumatic Brain Injuries recently - the sporting authorities refer to it as concussion. If your son doesn’t enjoy playing the sport, I would insist he never plays a game of contact rugby in his life.

I think folks are getting confused by what contact means at age 9 compared to age 12 /13. Contact starts at age 9 which as I stated before is moving from tag to tackling. Full contact doesn’t start until they are U13s which is where they do the full scrums etc

Wow your son is the exact same height and weight as my 4 year old daughter and theres no way I'd allow her to play contact rugby with 9 year olds. The school would be crazy to allow it!

Explain to HT you are happy for your son to be fully involved with the team (he doesn’t have to sit in the library) He could be the coach's assistant; video recording matches, doing data analysis, ensuring subs are warmed up and ready. As he gets older he could help with younger year groups.
I appreciate that games is an integral part of his school life, so your not asking for him to be excused, just not actually play.

My son is a rugby player and has been since childhood. Best thing he ever started but he’s had a few knocks over the years.There are risks but they aren’t as high as many high risk activities teens participate in and a decent game does reduce need for other adrenaline activities later on. It builds self esteem and team working. It’s a huge confidence and resilience developer.

I would think a discussion with the school about some specific issues might be in order.
Who is training them and what qualifications do they have? World of difference between a fully qualified coach and an ex pupil on a gap year (as many independents use).
What are they meaning by contact? Under9’s is the norm for starting partial contact but this isn’t scrums where injuries are most likely to be sustained.
What is their track record on safety? Do they stop play on frozen ground, for example? How many children have required treatment at hospital? Are staff first aid trained?

I wouldn’t excuse him just because he doesn’t like it. We all have to learn to do things we don’t like. I would invest in a properly fitted mouth guard rather than a heat in a mug one and a well fitted scrum cap along with some under armour to reduce impact of minor knocks.

Dd plays football against boys. She's 14 and small and skinny. Some of the boys are huge. She avoids tackles by being skillful. The more skilled you are, the less likely you are to get hurt.

I would let him train in games lessons but not play in a team if i was really worried.

YANBU all the boys are growing, they will all be catching up with constantly changing centre of gravity etc which make them not very controlled...my DS stopped playing football at 13 because he was very small and slight for age and as some of the boys were going through puberty it was like him playing against grown men size wise. He was getting hurt in perfectly legal tackles and generally sent flying due to size differences (and he was fast and coordinated!) and that was football let alone rugby.