To be saddened people still do these things on holiday?

[lastqueenofscotland]

Had a summer of holidays pictures on social media m which had included a lot of people
Swimming with dolphins
Going to sea world in Orlando
Posing with drugged up tigers for pictures
Riding elephants in Thailand

So on and so forth. In an age where information about the poor treatment of these animals is so well known and freely available AIBU to feel a bit sad about it.
I also want to publicly call them out... but that won’t go well.

Sheshootssheimoplores
I completely agree with you. If people want to support wildlife the RSPB is a brilliant organisation that protects all wildlife not just birds. It's just not cool to be into birds sadly. I have a cousin who loves wildlife so much that she went to Borneo to view the Orangutans but she wouldn't know a magpie if she fell over one. People are oblivious to the beautiful native wildlife all around them and cant see that their air travel is contributing to the planets downfall.
My DH had to deal with a 17 year old private school kid recently who thought he was having an allergic reaction. He had touched nettles. He had no clue what a nettle was . He has spent the summer in a Costa Rican village though!

I feel amazed that so many people are so oblivious to the suffering of the animals for their pleasure.

I have been swimming in Australia when dolphins came into the bay and were swimming, it was magical but it was no organised trip, they weren’t being encouraged/fed etc. There were in other areas lots of organised swims and they didn’t seem right.

Mmgrish

Riding an elephant is NOT the same as riding a horse. Just because it's a big animal and is physically strong does not mean that they can be ridden.

That's not even going into discussing the Phajaan. When a baby elephant is captured the mum and probably a few others as they will protect the baby, are killed. Then the baby is tortured by a process called the Phajaan. It's barbaric. It's not natural for humans to be able to be close to them, it only happens because they are so threatened that they feel they have to submit to what humans want.

I've seen elephants with broken backs, with skin which has been rubbed raw because of their saddles. It's disgusting.

Of course other animals are abused and it's always unacceptable but please don't ever say that riding an elephant is the same as riding a horse.

The photo is of an abused elephant

Elephant's backs are triangular, it should go up not down

I went travelling to Australia years ago. On the west coast, I think, there was a beach which was famous for dolphins swimming in shallow waters and you could swim with them. I remember going with a friend and we stood in the water and the dolphins came around us and rubbed against our legs. We weren't to touch them, didn't swim with them or anything. I dong remember any food being involved but maybe there was. At the time it felt really natural and like they naturally swam up to us but looking back I wonder how natural it was? I guess they could have been bribed with food?

doctorallcome do you genuinely think a dolphin whistled to a girl you were swimming with because it wanted her to ride on it’s back ? Do you not think that might be trained behaviour?

If you want to swim with dolphins in captivity just be honest about it. I was swimming in my hometown about 15 years ago when a pod of dolphins came from nowhere. It was genuinely the most terrifying moment of my life - they were so fast, making so much splash and one bumped me with its nose (I hope, my dm tells everyone I was raped by a dolphin after she read about a similar experience) and I had an enormous bruise for weeks. The dolphins don’t seem to come close inland so much anymore around here as so many fuckers on jet skis and speedboats harass them. I currently have a seal as my nemesis, he’s a right bashy fucker.

I always hear the same tripe being spouted by the middle classes. Keen to make sure Tarquin and Delilah have a diverse upbringing where they get to experience other cultures etc etc.
Oh yes.
It's about appreciating planet earth. It's about experiencing other cultures. It's about giving them a rounded experience of life. It's about them seeing the things that they want to see because they're pretty. It's about realising that we are lucky (to be honest anyone who needs to fly half way round the world to realise they are fortunate is an utter idiot).

Interestingly every single one of those arguments is about why doing any of these thing gives THEM the experience THEY want. It's just dressed up as pretend concern and becomes a story to tell after with almost no change to their own life.

It's amazing how many people manage to get on board with lots of exotic voluntourism trips in the name of "learning about the environment, showing compassion to orphans etc" whilst there are people on the UK in poverty, kids in care and at risk who could do with approximately trained volunteer mentors, and people complain about schools doing a monthly bake sale or non uniform day for charity. Suddenly caring about the world and the less fortunate goes out the window, until next year when Tanzania will be swapped for Thailand and another humbling experience and more twaddle about how important they've realised the environment is.

Because orphanages are not good for children. There’s a reason they don’t exist in the western world anymore - children are far better off being fostered within family households.

And frequently, children are placed in orphanages in developing countries specifically to attract volunteers and their money.

Follygirl

Horses do not give humans permission to ride them. They are born into captivity or broken. They didn't choose to be domesticated by people.

Besides my point wasn't whether to ride elephants versus horses. It don't really care who rides horses. It was about the hypocrisy surrounding working animals. For better or worse, elephants have been working animals for more than a 1000 years in Asia. Just as horses have been in Europe.

Madeleine383, how should fostering be organised and by whom?

But probably the vast majority of orphanages are just orphanages who desperately need help. So pp is being a bit ridiculous.

^This. Most orphanages release the animal once they are independent

Where are they living that they don’t know the reality of these things?

Wasn’t Blackfish discredited somewhat? I thought one of the ex “trainers” interviewed was actually a former sea world cleaner..

It is a bit trendy to slag off seaworld. I wonder if it’s a UK thing? There must be plenty of areas of the globe that don’t have the hatred, as seaworld still has plenty of visitors.

I also read somewhere that the income from visitors pays for the whales upkeep (bred in the 70’s and 80’s when everyone thought it was a brilliant idea, but cannot just be released into the sea now that the public have suddenly u turned).

Take a look at the size of the tanks these whales are held in for decades and tell yourself that that is ok.

They are intelligent animals. They feel and form relationships. The Billy Connolly programme the other night visited cape cod. They were seeing behaviours in whales that you wouldn't see from a boat (using a drone). The mother was hugging her calf.

@Lemons1571 you are correct. Blackfish is a piece of sensationalist entertainment, it’s predominantly fake and while that is in no defence against some of the previous practices of capturing their animals.

I admire and respect people who have done their research properly and feel that they're unable to visit zoos/Seaworld and other similar places but I absolutely cringe when people recommend that others watch Blackfish for the “truth”. It’s staggeringly naive and usual peddled by the same people who have latched on to the trendy anti-Seaworld movement but are happy to visit the captive animals at Disney, Universal or other similar parks.

My partner told me this evening they’re closing sea world down. Is that true?

Totally agree. I can't believe how ignorant some people are.

It's nothing to do with entertainment, it's learning about a part of our world, we don't normally get to know about. It's not just about jumping in and taking a picture, it's the whole education part before and after and for me, the magical part wasn't as much being close to them but hearing their clickety sound, magical.

You heard of things like documentaries? I like learning about history - I manage to do this despite not having a time machine or magical stone to pass through.

I actually do not credit blackfish as being complete true fact without any sensation at all. It’s very reactionary to things that have happened but it is not fantasy fiction. There are truths in there

what is true is how sea world et al acquired the whales originally and why they continue to breed them in captivity. This was not for ‘research’ and they took many many calves from their mothers in the wild, they also rarely release any and the pens are horribly tiny and cruel. At best the animals are just well fed. They do claim they do conservation work, but they do not do this in a true sense because whilst they may fund projects and educate about wild animals they still continue to breed them in captivity! This is true for most zoos not just sea world. ‘Conservation’ seems to come at a huge cost to the animals who have to live in the enclosures and it isn’t something I want to be part of

I do support sanctuaries who rehabilitate wildlife or provide areas for those who cannot be released to live out their days. You do not need to capture whales or any animals to learn more about them - what you see in an enclosure isn’t anything like natural behaviour. Sea world isn’t not for profit, it is an animal theme park. Not that I like zoos either but at least at most UK zoos in the main the animals are left alone and do not have to perform tricks

@thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter

I know right? They put penguin cams into wild penguin areas and watched them. Everyone learned loads

@MaryShelley1818 cringe away with your superior research, if even an ounce of Blackfish is true I don't want to go to Seaworld, it's as simple as that. I don't have the time or inclination to research any more than that because there is plenty of other things to be doing in Florida without trying to justify a trip there, you don't have to have watched Blackfish to realise it's very unlikely those animals are living the lives they deserve or would be getting in the wild.

Totally agree.people are becoming very much aware of where their food originates from but they need to look at the so called 'entertainment ' they enjoy too.
Humans are a disgrace,destroying the animal kingdom and the planet without a thought.
The fact we have to campaign just for animals to be treated as sentient beings says it all really.

What about health professionals visiting an orphanage as one off to administer vaccines, do health checks, educate staff on how to care for the children. How is this viewed?

I dont agree with the 'let's take a selfie' trend. It's just boring and screams look at me, look at me I'm such a good person.

It saddens me about the animals in captivity. I also feel sad about some pets like lizards and birds in cages or even free in a house. It's just not right. It's only recently dawned on me how cruel I think it is. I certainly wont be having any more cats after my 2 leave for the rainbow bridge. Although they appear happy, you never can tell. Plus the local nice population is being badly hit at the moment by my little white cat.

What about health professionals visiting an orphanage as one off to administer vaccines, do health checks, educate staff on how to care for the children. How is this viewed?

As a one off? not much use at all. You seem to assume that there are no local nurses able to administer vaccines. It's the availability of medication and vaccines that's more of an issue.

Health professionals are only really of use if they're around for a while, and as with any volunteers with skill sets, their usefulness is in training people so that they leave something behind when they go.
I know of two Australian nurses who spent a year working in a village. While there, they trained a bunch of women in health care, baby/childcare and first aid, as well as find raising for sponsorship to send a very able young man to train as a medic (and supporting his application) - among many other things.

If you go onto the VSO website, you'll see that almost all their volunteer posts are for highly experienced professionals who are prepared to give up a year (usually two) and whose role will be as an educator/trainer, so that they can pass on those skills.
So you don't get volunteer teachers, you get teacher trainers. They don't send people to nurse in a hospital they send people to train local nuses.

Dropping in anywhere as a one-off is of very limited use, if any.

fluffyjumper I can’t imagine anyone would begrudge a doctor or nurse giving medical care at a facility. It would be even better if they could use that money to buy the medicine and employ a local (qualified) person to do the job though. I can’t think of a reason a westerner would need to fly halfway across the world to teach someone how to care for the children though?