To be saddened people still do these things on holiday?

[lastqueenofscotland]

Had a summer of holidays pictures on social media m which had included a lot of people
Swimming with dolphins
Going to sea world in Orlando
Posing with drugged up tigers for pictures
Riding elephants in Thailand

So on and so forth. In an age where information about the poor treatment of these animals is so well known and freely available AIBU to feel a bit sad about it.
I also want to publicly call them out... but that won’t go well.

I agree. I went out on a boat to see wild dolphins this summer, it took a good 2 hours to get out to where they are and the sea was choppy as hell, but it was so worth it to see them free in their natural space.

@pimbee
It might reassure you to know that the dolphins we were in the water with were not penned in nor forced over to us. Nor did they bribe them with fish treats. They had a smaller lagoon which we were in linked to a larger lagoon habitat that was in the sea but with shark protection barriers and no go zones for any water craft. When she whistled to let the dolphins know, the dolphins had the choice to stay out in their lagoon or pop into the smaller one and interact with us. A few of the dolphins stayed out and did not come to interact with us and they were left to their own devices.
You should really do some research into the different conservation charities and how they safeguard the welfare of their rescue population including re-introduction to the wild. You said
“I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to animal welfare tbh and it's not a topic I've looked into in great depth, but after Black Fish won't go to Sea World. ”

Honestly, watching a fictional movie loosely based on real events done by Hollywood is hardly a good basis from which to make assumptions.

On a side note, I’ve donated to WWF since I was a Girl Scout and you better believe that if I ever get a chance to see the panda research Center in China, I will definitely go there as WWF and China brought pandas back from the brink of extinction!

@DoctorAllcome I don't need to research because I'm not looking to get any entertainment from animals, I don't think I have any right to it, I just think you came across quite entitled like you had a right to it because you helped fund it? Perhaps it's just the way you write? Sounds like your research may be a tad also going by the pp's analysis of the link, but yeah I won't check as I'm lazy and it's not a Netflix film 😁

@INeedToThrowItAllOut
It’s obvious you are cherry picking things and ignoring substance
“DPMMR trained professionals have been rescuing whales and dolphins in the Florida Keys since 1987. Our Founder, Richard Borguss, had the vision of connecting people with dolphins via meaningful interactions and pioneered the first swim with the dolphin program in the United States in 1980. Rick was also a visionary, who succeeded in one of the first marine mammal rehabilitation efforts, resulting in the successful reintroduction to the wild of a group of sick, stranded rough-toothed dolphins (Steno bredanensis). From this point, Rick developed a dedicated stranding response team comprised of experienced Dolphins Plus staff and trained volunteers.”

“Dolphins Plus Marine Mammal Responder (DPMMR), a 501(c).3, is committed to the conservation and protection of marine mammals, worldwide, through our active involvement in conservation, research, extensive education, and outreach programs. DPMMR leads and operates the only whale and dolphin stranding organization covering 10,000 square miles of marine habitat in the Florida Keys. DPMMR promotes a greater understanding of marine ecosystem science, marine mammal conservation, and environmental stewardship via powerful daily interactions with the general public.”

“It could be a mass stranding. It might be a whale or dolphin tangled in fishing line. No matter the situation, DPMMR professionals are the first responders that the Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission and the National Marine FIsheries Service contact and count on when emergencies arise. DPMMR is an entirely not-for-profit arm of Dolphins Plus that is on call 24/7/365 to assist with any marine mammal emergencies.”

“Steve McCulloch
Executive Director of Stranding Operations and Development

Steve McCulloch

Steve McCulloch is an internationally recognized marine mammal expert and conservationist with 48 years marine mammal experience within the zoological industry
and research communities. A recipient of numerous international awards for excellence in conservation and advancements in research and education, Steve has twice been nominated as a finalist to receive the world's most prestigious conservation award, the Indianapolis Prize. And for his efforts to rescue dolphins, whales and sea turtles, Steve has also earned recognition from numerous State and Federal agencies. Steve has also been active in the legislative process and has passed (3) Florida State laws to create the "Protect Wild Dolphins" and "Protect Florida Whales" programs. He also worked with Governor Jeb Bush to create the "Florida Oceans Initiative" and since 1999 has helped raised more than $70M for marine conservation programs throughout Florida. For his decades of service and numerous contributions to the literature, Steve was most recently featured in the Aquatic Mammals Journal’s ‘Historical Perspectives Changing Oceans – Changing Planets Series. www.aquaticmammalsjournal.org. Today, and with a special with a focus on "Ocean and Human Health" Steve consults worldwide, while he continues to organize and lead annual dolphin health assessments, survey marine mammal environments and manage DPMMR’s Stranding and Photo-ID programs.“

YANBU. It really really puts me off anyone who does this kind of thing these days. There are NO excuses.

“After over thirty years of financially and physically supporting over 640 whale and dolphin stranding responses, Dolphins Plus has evolved into the not-for-profit, Dolphins Plus Marine Mammal Responder (DPMMR). Our goal is to connect people with dolphins and inspire them to protect their wild counterparts and the fragile marine ecosystem. Through DPMMR (via donations, powerful interactions creating connections, educational programs, etc.), the general public directly contributes to the rescue, rehabilitation, research, and conservation of whales, dolphins, and the local marine ecosystem. This knowledge not only benefits the Florida Keys, but the global scientific research community.”

pimbee I agree with you. We have no right to be entertained period.

@pimbee
Research has nothing to do with entertainment for me. I guess you link them because you only research the things that you are looking to get entertainment from.

To anyone doubting the issues people have with Seaworld please watch The Cove and Blackfish

I've visited elephant orphanages that rescue baby elephants whose mothers have been shot by poachers , they are ethical

@DoctorAllcome that must be it, you got me.

YANBU I hate to see this and sadly have members of my family who think it’s acceptable.

The orphanage tourism thing is terrible too. Just people wanting to feel good about themselves and it’s a story they can tell for years to come.

Of course there are times when people genuinely help, I knew someone at uni who volunteered in an orphanage during the holidays and fundraisers during term time. She moved out there permanently to work for them once she completed her degree(which was in a relevant subject) but that is very different to going into to cuddle and coo and them only to leave after a couple of days.

I've spent time working at an elephant sanctuary in Thailand looking after 25 elephants rescued from trekking camps.

Elephants aren't built to carry a lot of weight on their backs and we saw a few with actual broken backs. The mahouts still use bullhooks on them and often they are left chained up all day when they're not working at these camps.

The elephants at the centre live in huge enclosures with people who care about their welfare. Of course they shouldn't be there in the first place but it's illegal and to be honest immoral to release them once they've been captured. I say immoral as they don't know how to look after themselves and some have serious mental issues. One elephant at the centre was so terrified by other elephants she had to live alone. For a herd animal it's unimaginable.

I have been sharing photos and trying to educate my friends as I do know people who would go to these trekking camps. Please don't visit them.

Back on the orphanages... I know someone who has been on a £3500 trip from school to volunteer at a Sri Lankan orphanage. The same trip is offered by our local high school DD will not be going on it!

“It was an amazing experience”; “cute”.

You seem to be in denial dr

We need to stop using all animals for food/entertainment/ financial gain. The ones we sit down and eat at our tables tonight will have sufferered horrically too. We need to stop funding all these industries.

I did the elephant thing in Thailand. I spent ages researching different places and found a genuine charity which rescues abused elephants and looks after them well. There are no chains, elephants are ridden bare back because harnesses are bad for them and are not hit. The focus of the day was how to look after them and learning about them. It was a genuinely lovely place. And cost a lot more than other places.

@negomi90 any place which allows you to ride elephants (bareback is irrelevant) is NOT ethical. Elephants undergo tremendous cruelty (the process is called having their spirits broken) in order to be ridden by people.

This is a helpful article i saw recently about elephant-friendly travel www.mirror.co.uk/travel/asia-middle-east/how-elephant-friendly-travelling-warning-18857579

JazzyGG
Somewhere I know offers that sort of trip too. The eye rolling I have to suppress is strong.

I like school partnerships where students exchange both ways, even if one is in a developing country. Often staff will be involved in staff to staff support and there's ongoing links between students. Those sorts of trips I can get on board with.

Go build houses / see the orphans trips aren't ok and schools should know better. The kids who digest the saviour superheroes story in school are probably the ones who do lots of fundraising at university to go to climb Kilimanjaro for charidee or to fly half way around the world for them to do some environmental work.

It's nothing to do with entertainment, it's learning about a part of our world, we don't normally get to know about. It's not just about jumping in and taking a picture, it's the whole education part before and after and for me, the magical part wasn't as much being close to them but hearing their clickety sound, magical.

I feel the same about meeting people abroad, discovering new vegetation, just an interest in getting close to the natural world. You can do all of it whilst still respecting it.

I would be very annoyed if any of my friends judge me on my pictures having no clue what my 3xorstuons involved just to make them feel good that they believe they have most respect for the environment than I do.

Slight derail but I've just looked at seaworld on google earth. Why can't we see the whales in their (horrifically tiny) pens? Similarly, there seems to be nobody about or on the road 🤔

As @KateWrong says, there is no elephant friendly elephant riding, bareback or no as the process for training elephants to be ridden is exceptionally cruel.

They are not domestic animals like horses.

And as for 'my child's dream is to swim with dolphins' - just say the dolphins don't like it and only horrible people swim with them and raise an animal activist instead.

It was my childhood dream to have a pony but I'm still waiting. Apparently having a pony in a backgarden is cruel - my DM's answer everytime the question came up.

I always hear the same tripe being spouted by the middle classes. Keen to make sure Tarquin and Delilah have a diverse upbringing where they get to experience other cultures etc etc. Bullshit. You want to fly around the world copious times a year whilst living a lifestyle not at all similar to the local people. You want to cherry pick the best bits and then fuck of home and leave them to their poverty.

Just own it. The amount of posts on this site showing off about exotic holidays and then pearl clutching about climate change. You are raping and exploiting the planet and you are handing all of our children the dust of your privilege.

Haven't read the full thread just first post I just wanted to quickly say that it is so hypocritical for westerners to criticise things like elephant riding in Thailand.

What about people riding horses in the UK? What about horse racing or dog racing? What about the fact that police have used horses for hundreds of years as working animals?
Bomb sniffer dogs?
Drug sniffer dogs at airports?
1000 horses parading on the mall for the queen's birthday?

@Okurrrrrrrr it was in Jamaica. There's a bar built from driftwood a mile out to sea which we were taking a trip to visit. I asked our boat driver on the drive out whether they ever saw dolphins, he said rarely. A few moments after we got to the bar he ushered us back onto the boat (we didn't know what was happening) and drove us further out to sea, totally out of the blue a group of around 10 dolphins were swimming with us either side of the boat. We didn't swim in the sea with them but they were within touching distance. It was one of the most magical things I've ever seen. We aren't particularly well traveled but it was our honeymoon so we pushed the boat out to go somewhere special and I'll never forget it. Truly a once in a lifetime experience and as others have said, a privilege.

Wishing you lots of beautiful memories for your own honeymoon!