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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be saddened people still do these things on holiday?

418 replies

lastqueenofscotland · 07/09/2019 10:10

Had a summer of holidays pictures on social media m which had included a lot of people
Swimming with dolphins
Going to sea world in Orlando
Posing with drugged up tigers for pictures
Riding elephants in Thailand

So on and so forth. In an age where information about the poor treatment of these animals is so well known and freely available AIBU to feel a bit sad about it.
I also want to publicly call them out... but that won’t go well.

OP posts:
TellItLikeItReallyIs · 09/09/2019 11:54

it was the saddest place and I left after watching a tiger pace back and forth..

Most zoos have animals that exhibit stress related repetitive behaviour if you are looking for it. It's most noticeable in bigger animals - particularly bears, tigers, giraffes and so on.

This short video from the Born Free foundation shows many examples across a wide range of species:

Polar Bears

RosaWaiting · 09/09/2019 12:03

FuriousVexation "OP why did you do all of this if you actually didn't want to?"

why don't people read threads? OP didn't do any of this. She is commenting on how many people do.

dayslikethese1 · 09/09/2019 13:27

This is a thought-provoking thread. I agree with most of the points re SeaWorld, dolphin swimming and orphanages. Another thing I thought of as well; all those people taking pics of themselves with African kids or whatever, if that was kids in the UK people would be up in arms about their privacy and the images being on SM etc. so it seems pretty wrong that it's OK to do the same to those kids when it's not OK here.

As an aside; how do people feel about UK zoos? I can't decide how I feel about them.

FFSDH · 09/09/2019 13:32

I’m torn about UK zoos. I used to go to Port Lympne a lot as they do actually release and rehabilitate animals in Africa. Also the enclosures are absolutely huge, you can’t guarantee you’ll actually see a lot of the animals which seemed like a Good Thing. Then I went to the wedding there and in one of the rooms they’ve got the most extra mural ever - it’s of the founder of the park as some benevolent God shielding animals from the nasty black hunters. It made me think he might not have done it for entirely altruistic reasons. I’ll try and find it and link it.

MrsBadcrumble123 · 09/09/2019 18:21

@KateWrongwould did I say anything about medication 🤔 slightly different from Tesco’s groceries love calm down. Would you like Seaworld to stop their conservation too? This post is so late after the fact and just an excuse to be judgy - Seaworld have acknowledged their wrongs but they still have animals in their care that cannot be released into the wild - how do you expect them to fund their care if no one continues to visit?? Blackfish has been proven to be full of holes so yes these ill-educated posts will continue to get on my tits when they continue to mention Seaworld alongside drugged Tigers.... you don’t like assistance animals either? They are performing a function, hey lets not ride horses either? handwring handwring Hmm

Ticklemeelmo · 09/09/2019 18:35

This link explains well why you shouldn't visit orphanages

www.worldnomads.com/responsible-travel/make-a-difference/people/orphanage-visits-more-harmful-than-helpful

Jessie94 · 09/09/2019 18:39

Yep, it's sickening.

I've vegan and actively protest against such things x

Lenmaw · 09/09/2019 18:48

I’m off to the Algarve- someone suggested I went to zoo marina I nearly decked them.

I’ve deleted any one on social media that does it or similar. Not that that helps the situation. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Shhhhh223 · 09/09/2019 18:52

Totally agree. While people ignorantly pay for these “attractions” animals will carry on suffering we have more info on this than ever before so hopefully more people will boycott these things

Pigwig10 · 09/09/2019 18:52

Many years ago we were on holiday in the Florida Keys, we went on a boat trip that took us to what they called Dolphin playgrounds. When we were near they played music in the boat, they said it was to attract the dolphins, different types for different groups of dolphins. Apparently there were different areas of the sea that the older dolphins frequented and the younger ones. We saw them appear near the boat, swim around it. We were allowed to go into the sea but were given strict instructions not to put our hand out to touch them. If they came up to us and touched us, ok, but we were not to attempt to touch them. I was snorkelling and 2 dolphins swam around me then came up to my face, looking at me before swimming away. To this day, that is the most magical experience I've ever had apart from seeing my babies for the first time. I hope to god I didn't negatively impact them 😕

winniestone37 · 09/09/2019 19:38

@LuluBellaBlue orphan tourism is grotesque, you wouldn't do it in this country so why there? Send money and leave tbem alone.

Boysey45 · 09/09/2019 20:25

@MrsBadcrumble123, I think SeaWorld will have made their money millions over, and they could keep those poor Whales in outside large sanctuary's for the rest of their days. I think its totally degrading that they still have to perform tricks for the public. It preys on my mind and its upsetting.
Years ago as part of my job I had to visit a zoo and the images of that I cant erase from my mind either. As a result I don't visit any captive animals or aquariums etc.

MrsBadcrumble123 · 09/09/2019 20:31

@boysey it may not be as easy as plonking them in a bigger tank

Bluehues · 09/09/2019 20:51

YANBU I agree with you

Boysey45 · 09/09/2019 20:59

Not plonking them in a bigger tank, releasing them into the sea in some type of marine conservation area.

FFSDH · 09/09/2019 21:03

boysey they would die if they were released into the wild. They’d have no pod, wouldn’t know how to socialise, hunt, anything and would die of starvation pretty quickly. That’s probably still kinder than forcing them to live in a tiny tank and perform several times a day though.

BunsyGirl · 09/09/2019 21:56

SeaWorld has rescued and rehabilitated thousands of animals - over 1500 Sea Lions in San Diego alone in the past year which have been released back into the sea.

PookieDo · 09/09/2019 22:22

Despite releasing turtles and stopping their whale breeding programme they are still breeding dolphins. I cannot even find any record of how many dolphins they have bred in captivity but it will outstrip how many they have rescued by a large majority. The number of dolphins captured is in high numbers until it was illegal in the US

They are not even breeding the dolphins naturally aka letting them mate, they are inseminating them in a ‘breeding programme’ which is of no benefit to wild dolphins at all. They are trying to domesticate them

I don’t have exact turtle numbers but from looking at sea world itself, since it opened in the 80’s they are claiming they have rehabbed 2,000 turtles. Which doesn’t seem that much actually for such a large organisation

Currently in the world there are 60 captive orcas and 29 of them were taken from the sea as a calf.

They are very open about the numbers of small animals they return to the oceans and not so much about the ones they have taken or the ones they keep breeding in captivity. Funny that

Loveyou3000 · 09/09/2019 22:38

A girl I went to school with regularly visits different orphanages and posts long, deep Instagram posts about how she changed the children's lives. It's a self serving saviour complex, and it's a problem. These children have an endless cycle of young adults that come and bring them gifts and cuddle them, show them lots of attention and then they're gone again, onto the next person. That's why these children are so keen to attach themselves to these visitors so quickly. Can you imaging doing that in foster homes in the UK? You aren't changing their lives you're adding to the endless stream of people that just come in like a whirlwind and abandon them as soon as they're attached to you.

Not to mention, most of these 'orphans' AREN'T orphans, parents who can't support their children are offered better lives for the kids if they send them away. The orphanages rake in that western tourist cash by wheeling these abandoned kids out like an attraction. Its exploitation, and anyone that takes part in it is implicit

DontJustDoItBnQItInTheStore · 09/09/2019 22:45

boysey they would die if they were released into the wild. They’d have no pod, wouldn’t know how to socialise, hunt, anything and would die of starvation pretty quickly.

It is possible to have an environment that is better than a tile tank though. I went to a place where (bear with me this may be tricky to describe) there was a large netted off area near the shore but went out quite deep. Like the kind of net they use in shark infested areas where people want to swim to keep the sharks away. This was much deeper and went from the surface to the sea floor.
There were a couple of "gates" - no actual gate more a large hole big enough for a dolphin to get through.
The dolphins were fed off a platform in the netted area but they had been shown the gates and knew how to get out.
They would come back to be fed because they knew when feeding time was.
I don't think I've explained it well but it was a sort of half way house between dolphins in a tank and plonking them back in the sea to fend for themselves.
They had space, got fed, and could go out to sea if they wanted to but would come back as they knew that's where the food was.

That's a better option to me for Seaworld type dolphins - its a better quality of life than a Seaworld aquarium.

LiveInAHidingPlace · 09/09/2019 23:04

"It is possible to have an environment that is better than a tile tank though"
Of course but better than what you're describing would be the animals not being in there at all.

DontJustDoItBnQItInTheStore · 09/09/2019 23:30

Duh! Yes of course. I was talking about the point that PP said you can't just plonk a Seaworld dolphin in the sea so you need to keep them in a tank as they can't survive in the wild.

There is a half way house for those that can't feed themselves due to Seaworld domestication.

CSIblonde · 10/09/2019 00:45

Why has Blackfish been questioned? The animal behaviourist expert was very specific re the disturbed behaviour & the danger of keeping them in tiny pools when in the wild they roam hundreds of miles, keeping them hungry before food rewarded tricks &, the keepers lack of basic safety awareness & knowledge. Even an ex keeper they interviewed cried re the treatment meted out to the animals. Tillikum the Seaworld whale who showed very disturbed behaviour, beating its nose until bloody repetitively on concrete poolside etc killed a keeper (no wild orca has ever shown aggression to humans). He was released back into the wild but every pod he approached drove him off. Whales are highly social, so I can only think releasing a group together would be kinder: in the sort of halfway house net arrangement a pp described.

CilantroChili · 10/09/2019 01:08

100%

Don’t touch wild animals. The clue is in the word “wild”. No, no I have not rtt but why on earth do people think it’s perfectly super-fine and ok to engage/touch a sentient creature in its home/environment and have issues with being touched or whistled at in public

CilantroChili · 10/09/2019 01:10

Sorry. Sorry now but

Who/where/what said blackfish was questionable?

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