To be saddened people still do these things on holiday?

[lastqueenofscotland]

Had a summer of holidays pictures on social media m which had included a lot of people
Swimming with dolphins
Going to sea world in Orlando
Posing with drugged up tigers for pictures
Riding elephants in Thailand

So on and so forth. In an age where information about the poor treatment of these animals is so well known and freely available AIBU to feel a bit sad about it.
I also want to publicly call them out... but that won’t go well.

YANBU at all! It’s depressing. The dolphin ones I find the worst as it’s portrayed as if people are ‘loving’ them with kisses etc. It’s awful.

We've just been to Florida and when DH and I were booking the park tickets I said 'No Seaworld' very firmly.

In the hotel I was chatting with a woman who was taking her daughter to meet cooped up dolphins and recommended it to us. It was all I could do not to make a snarky comment. I did want to go to the manatee sanctuary - but not to swim or pet them, just to see them in their habitat.

I'd like to get back to scuba diving and would love to meet dolphins out in the blue. Whenever I've met interesting marine creatures it's been because they've come up to look at us (the penguin was very very cute as it circled us with a WTF look on its face). But I won;t go looking for them to harass them.

There can be an argument that all zoos/animal captivity sites are exploitative. I have joined my local zoological society's zoos and donate extra to the conservation side of things when we visit. I understand that to some people me going to look at a the floofy Pallas cat sleeping on a branch at Banham zoo is the same as exploiting Orcas at Seaworld, but I think a well-maintained zoo where the enclosures allow the animals to get away from humans if they want is very different to keeping animals such as orcas and dolphins in such a comparatively tiny and featureless space.

@Littleheart5
I haven't missed the point. Do companies that mistreat wild animals exist? Yes, definitely and this is indeed very sad.

Do all companies that offer an encounter with wildlife abuse animal welfare? No, not all do and some show extreme respect for wildlife. Respecting wildlife doesn't have to mean having no contact whatsoever with it.

Do all people taking pictures of wildlife do so through unscrupulous companies? unlikely, hence it isn't right to make an assumption they all do.

Simple.

Swimming with dolphins is an extremely dangerous thing to do. We have pods round the area I live in and every year there are people who attempt to do this. Some have even died trying.

Best to stick to tours and watch from a distance. Sometimes they do swim alongside boats. But swimming/paddleboarding near them is a huge mistake - they are wild animals and extremely strong, they will if they feel threatened attack.

I have a friend who does a lot of volunteering with an orphanage in Asia. He arranges parties for the kids and trips for them. The feedback from the orphanage is very grateful and positive. And no he’s not a paedo. He’s just a nice guy and it does make a huge difference to these kids lives
Whoah. Where has anyone mentioned people being paedos?
We're just questioning this life changing difference is that unqualified volunteers with no relevant professional experience seem to be able to offer.

And, yes, in the UK people do visit children’s hospitals and such like and play with the kids and hand out presents. It’s a nice thing to do
Another poster has already explained why arrangements for UK Hospitals aren't the same.
Equally, the kids in care I've worked with seem amazed if anyone gives a damn about them. People are usually too busy complaining that a children's home for 5 children will open because they're all feral criminals who'll pull down the house prices (just the type of people who'll support their 18 year old doing a gap yah in Africa or Asia).

How is this centering the child's needs?
It's not. It's centering the needs to adults who want to feel good about themselves whilst having nowhere near the required qualifications and skills to do anything meaningful for children with a lot of emotional baggage.

Poverty tourism, it’s sickening and echo all the PP on here about western entitlement, etc

@Unihorn

As trendy as Blackfish made slagging SeaWorld off, they do carry out conservation work too; I don't imagine the drugged tiger places do too much for the local wildlife

Are you kidding? "Conservation work" was all about putting lipstick on the pig after the event. It was a blatant PR attempt to address the back lash.

Have you watched Blackfish? I'd really recommend you do. It's not just about the death of Dawn Brancheau and others who died, it's about the whole history of Seaworld places and the origins of capturing whales for entertainment.

You can see a short form here but it is no substitute for the full thing which is briliant and very moving.

Orcas behave like this because it's like keeping a human in a corridor for the rest of their life and making them sleep in a lift. It's no wonder they go stir crazy. There is no record of an Orca/Killer Whale ever harming a human in the wild.

About Dawn Brancheau

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Brancheau

"having been an expat in Asia for six years prior to volunteering, and having a husband from the area, I knew the area well and knew of the orphanage"

Look that's obviously a very different scenario than the voluntourism we're discussing.

I still think you have to be really careful as a westerner. It's so easy to go around imposing your beliefs on people. I live in Asia and I have done a few volunteering projects but the attitudes of most of the other volunteers and organisers puts me off. You can see exactly what type of person does these things, it's about 10% people that actually want to help and the rest are either people who want to post all over insta or people who get off on being the one in the dominant position.

I met a group of 6th formers and their teachers in Zambia a couple of years ago. They were on a trip than involved safaris, and volunteering in an orphanage for five days. You should have heard them. Every one of them thought they were Mother Fucking Theresa. They breezed into that orphanage, showered these traumatised kids with attention, then disappeared again. Just as presumably happens to those kids every week, but with a different bunch of cooing strangers.

We were eating dinner together at a large communal table so I had to listen to all their self-satisfied chatter for a long time. I could barely keep myself from losing it when one of the girls was saying how much one of the kids adored her and how it cried when she left.
Okay, these girls were young and maybe knew no better, but their teachers were just as bad. I was horrified that this sort of stuff is still allowed. I wish I'd found out the name of their school. I would absolutely have followed it up with their headteacher.

While there are some good projects out there (I'm involved with a couple) the vast majority of orphanages that accept tourists and short term volunteers are doing more harm than good. That is very well known now, and many NGOs are working hard to educate people, and especially to work with tour companies to stop this happening.

saraclara those kinds of projects make me sick.

Where are the groups of Zambian kids coming to UK reception classes and talking about how cute and adorable the children are? Can you imagine the outcry?

Well, not all dolphin swimming places are bad.

I have swum with dolphins but it was at a dolphin rescue place. Numerous dolphins get injured by jet skis, boats, fishing industry and these ones are rescued and nursed back to health before being released back into the wild. We donated to it and so were invited to come in and see the dolphins there were nursing.
We had to use special sun screen because most regular ones can irritate the dolphins.
They only allow one group a day in the water with the dolphins for 2hrs. There were six of us, me, DH and a couple with two girls aged around 5 and 7 or so. The kids had floatation vests on. The dolphin person whistled to let the dolphins know we were coming in the water. We then just stood around in shallows and the dolphins came over bit by bit of their own accord to say hi. We then swim out a bit with them...not touching them but they would brush against us like cats do. While I was out pretty deep I saw a dolphin nudge the older girl with a side swipe type movement and she squealed and was saying “what does it want?” The dolphin person said the dolphin was named ——- and he was asking her if she wanted a ride. The dolphin person helped the girl hold the dolphin correctly. And the cutest thing was the dolphin then swam the girl (She held on) directly to her dad and sort of dropped her off!

It was an amazing experience. The dolphin person pointed out each dolphin, their name, how they were rescued, how long they’d been there, which ones were going to be released back soon.

The thing with volunteering at orphanages is westeners come, act like they are gracing these children with their presence. The shiny white person. They act like their best friend and then leave and never see them again.

That's quite a horrible thing to do to a child really, especially a child in care whose life is already full of instability. How about funding local adults training so they can be involved? Surely that's the most useful thing we can do.

What about fostering in the UK? It's funny how people are so desperate to help foreign orphanages but do fuck all for children in care in the uk.

Its almost othering I think. The children in these orphanages are the same as the British children (not that British care system is particularly great), we recognise that British children in care need stability, why not thai/African etc children? They deserve proper trained people, they don't need white people to come and coo at them

This is where we went.
www.dpmmr.org/our-story

"Its almost othering I think"

I'd say it's the definition of othering.

Yanbu. I really don't understand how Seaworld has got away with Orcas in captivity for so long . I think they may finally be phasing it out though.

There was an episode of Keeping up with the Kardashians where they went round a school (I think it was), she was particularly taken with one girl and 'bonded'- the girl gave her a bracelet at the end of the visit. Kim was getting all misty eyed and contacted the coordinator to see if she could adopt the child! She thought she could swoop in and buy a child. The man told her, no she could not.

@DoctorAllcome you donated money so that gives you the right to swim with them? You can't just support something without getting something back? You don't see the entitlement and irony in that? I mean I don't know very much about it all tbh but found your post quite odd.

While I agree with what OP is saying, I also think this type of "entertainment" can have a purpose in raising awareness about conservation issues.
If you think back 30-100 years ago, European zoos where pretty dire places for the animals. Fast forward to the 21st century and they play a vital role in preserving endangered species with an extensive research & breeding programme.
Being able to see and touch wild animals in captivity does help to raise awareness to the plight of their wild counterparts. Unfortunately, many places also believe that they have to add some sort of entertainment. And it's true isn't it? Elephant / monkey orphanage where you can bottle feed one of the precious babies amazing for the "animal friend"
While exploring the dark green jungle on the back of an elephant really appeals to the atventurer! for
And don't forget the human side. These things often happen in less developed counties. People are told to protect their environment, they are not allowed to hunt or farm. They have to look elsewhere for an income.

Ylvamoon
The people who want to go and ride elephants or take photos of them playing football with orphans etc don't give a damn about world affairs or specific areas. They want a holiday with some feel good stories they can share about how inspirational it was.
Most won't do anything else on return other than book their next fly half way around the world to look good trip.

@pimbee
You are correct, you do not know very much about it at all.
So I would suggest you check your entitled judgement of those who do actually support charities that benefit wild sea mammals.
We did not donate to “get something back.”
We had been donating to this rescue organization for years before we EVER had a chance to go to Florida and see it in person.

@DoctorAllcome oh good, so you REALLY deserved it, that's alright then!

We’ve booked for Florida next next year and I went on a SM Florida page but I had to come off it before I was thrown off, they were going on about how much they loved Seaworld, the dolphins and Orcas wouldn’t perform the tricks of they didn’t want to and the best comment of all was that “swimming in the tank was better for them anyway as the ocean is so polluted nowadays”

Ive never watched Blackfish and that shortened version made me feel like I want to throw up. I’m
so suck of the human race, honestly. If it weren’t for my kids I would be celebrating our future obliteration.

Dolphin tours in the “wild” at some destinations are dodgy too.
The tour operators seek out and harass dolphins for the benefit of tourists.

@DoctorAllcome

Well, not all dolphin swimming places are bad.

I have swum with dolphins but it was at a dolphin rescue place. Numerous dolphins get injured by jet skis, boats, fishing industry and these ones are rescued and nursed back to health before being released back into the wild. We donated to it and so were invited to come in and see the dolphins there were nursing.

I just looked at the link you posted because it sounded a bit unlikely a rescue centre would let the public swim with animals who are being rehabilitated.

I didn't get much further than the Meet Our Dolphins page:

www.dpmmr.org/meet-our-dolphins

First dolphin up:

Alfonz, an adult male Atlantic bottlenose dolphin, was one of the first dolphins born at DPMMR on July 25, 1993. He inherited his pink belly from his father, Fonzie, a trait he continues to pass on to his own sons, Tug and Jett.

That's a hell of a long rehab if he was born there in 1993. Tug & Jett are also part of the resident dolphins.

I'm not doubting they do rescue and conservation work but don't kid yourself that excuses swimming with captive dolphins -- especially ones bred in captivity.

Seriously - watch Blackfish. Everyone should watch it.