To think freedom of movement is not understood by most!

[Onetwothree4]

I'm an EU citizen, lived most of my life in the UK and I can't stand this political nonsense of lies and misinterpretation anymore! Do you guys know that the freedom of movement exercised by most EU countries is as follows:

1. You can move to another EU country without a visa for 3 months to stay, study or look for work
2. After 3 months you will have to apply for a permission to settle based on your employment, family ties or studies
3. You will also have to prove you are financially able to look after yourself and not become a burden on the country's social welfare system.
4. You have to apply to be included in the social security system to be entitled to healthcare, education, benefits etc..

The UK GOVERNMENT decided to operate this free for all approach of people being able to just jump on the plane and go straight to the doctors. Most EU countries (maybe even all others!) did not! You can not do this in other EU countries.

The culprit is the UK government, not the EU! Why did they do that? I don't know. Probably needed the workforce? This is all smoke and mirrors and a big game played by the privileged boys in politics who want the top job.

Just to spell it out: If you wanted to move to my country, which is a full EU country with euro as currency, you would have to LEAVE after 3 months if you could not prove a valid reason to be there. This is how EU works. It's the UK law makers who took a very liberal approach to these rules and created this mess called Brexit.

@woodhill

I live in a declining seaside town. Lots of huge empty Victorian properties mixed with the odd second home.

The UK could not implement similar rules to other EU countries as it could not apply to different set of rules to own citizens and other EU citizens when it comes to the access to benefits etc. The UK is relatively unusual in that it has a free for the user healthcare system, no contributory period before you can claim out of work welfare and no compulsory personal id system.
So the only restriction that could be implemented was the 3 months limit if not in work or study. How realistic, would you say, is it to police such a requirement?

The UK is relatively unusual in that it has a free for the user healthcare system

Not really. And once again other countries manage it.

@EEmother the UK is relatively unusual only in the sense that it has chosen not to protect its public services.

Say if you chose not to lock your front door and made an announcement that you are friendly and welcoming, would you blame the people who walked in and made themselves comfortable or would you blame yourself for not choosing who you gave the key to?

Because other EU countries have always decided who they're given the key to. Tony Blair left the doors wide open.

Just like the fact we could still have blue passports. So much the the UK blame the EU for is down to how we implemented the laws

We really are a bunch of fucking idiots.

And yes I did vote remain.

@EEmother

Simply not true we chose to treat later joiners to the EU differently to earlier ones. We have much control in how we deal with things we choose not to. And then blame the EU.

We also need immigration the country. Lots of business round here struggling to find staff as little unemployment and lots of people left for home.

@lovelyupnorth It's not easy to know in this country who to believe and who is really trying to serve the public interest. Its all so mixed up. So I really do understand why Brexit is happening. Leavers wanted some sort of change. Too bad it never had to go this far, and I can't see how leaving the EU will actually change anything that couldn't have been done before.

So much the the UK blame the EU for is down to how we implemented the laws

That's the fault of the politicians, not the people.

big properties are being converted into multiple occupancy

That's nothing new. Seaside B&Bs were being converted into bedsits for multiple occupancy 40 years ago when the UK seaside tourist industry started to collapse. It's exactly why a lot of seaside resorts are run down with drug and crime problems - local authorities and prisons etc were actively encouraging newly released prisoners to move to those seaside resorts and live in tiny bedsits. As usual, those in power didn't have the intelligence to understand the consequences!

Well said Op. (I’m another part-European foreigner living here.)

For me the biggest elephants in the room are to do with how heavily the uk relies on EU (generally) nationals for certain jobs, from fruit picking to some healthcare and personal care roles. A little bit more humility/acknowledgement of that, or a stated approach to rectify that if it’s seen as a problem, was sorely lacking.

I think @BazzleJet summed it up perfectly.

I don't think that all people who voted leave necessarily see the EU as the enemy, but are frustrated with how our government decided on an open door policy which has had consequences for our population density and demand on services and infrastructure.

Some people who voted for Brexit blame uncontrolled immigration from the EU to the UK - predominantly by Eastern Europeans. They blame these Eastern European migrants for 'taking' jobs from British people, accepting low wages, driving wages down and thereby disadvantaging the native population, and for the fact that the character of their towns is changing because of the influx of immigrants.

But what if you are an EU migrant NOT from an Eastern European country, NOT doing low paid menial/care jobs therefore not 'taking' jobs from British people. Say if you're from Germany, or Luxemburg or France, for example, you have a job, you're able to pay all your bills and you're not a financial drain on the country. Then what are you in the aftermath of Brexit? Collateral damage?
It seems so unfair.

And now the Government has introduced the 'EU Settlement Scheme' that ALL EU citizens already living in/coming to this country must sign up to by a certain deadline.
Is it fair that people who already lived here before Brexit should sign up to this? Applying for rights they already have.

A European friend of mine who moved to London from the EU in the year 2000, has a very well-paid managerial job with lots of perks, bonuses, etc. Since the Referendum her employer has asked her several times what her plans are regarding applying for British citizenship. Is this fair? Is this even legal (that he should ask)l?
What a mess.

I agree that BazzleJet summed it up.

The problems of mass immigration for some people, (but not all), are not understood, and if anyone says anything the racist label is applied. And being labelled a racist can lose you your job among other things so everyone is rightly wary.

If your job is a low-skilled job and you have been priced out of it you are sneered at as being lazy or too "up-yourself" to do it. (Not nice - and an attitude exhibited on this thread). If you are on a 10 year waiting list for a council house but see EU migrants ahead of you - you cry "not fair" and are dubbed racist by those who are happy in their owned houses and safe well-paid jobs.

EEmother is right that our open access healthcare system was a problem.

And as for the sneering at "they take our jobs and loaf about on benefits" - in-work benefits form a huge proportion of benefits paid.

Work 16 hours a week as a cleaner or cab driver, claim Tax Credits, Child Tax Credit, Housing Benefit, possible Council Tax Reduction, Child Benefit, Free school meals, free prescriptions and others depending on specific circumstances.

A real understanding of the effects of the FOM policy and the way our government implemented it may well have made a difference to the Brexit vote

@WhisperingPines This is also the situation for my family. DH and I are both educated EU citizens in the UK since the early 2000's. We have two British born children who don't qualify for UK citizenship. We own a business, employ British workers and own land and property. I'm open to leaving the country if things get very difficult and starting fresh either back home or in my DHs country.
I don't really feel hard done by, but I guess that's my philosophy in life anyways. Just think it's ugly how the UK politicians and media manipulate the public.

So it is really a class matter. It has set the poor against the poor.

Onetwothree4

I'm open to leaving the country if things get very difficult and starting fresh either back home or in my DHs country.

Isn't that easier said than done though? Even if you moved back to your own country of origin, you may find that things have changed there too, politics, the economy, the social scene, etc. Your old friends will have moved on ...
In some countries they may treat you like a complete newcomer/new arrival if you move back, even if you are actually from there (bureaucracy, paperwork, new rules, ...).
And because of the decreased value of the Pound Sterling some EU countries are rather expensive to live in now.

www.worldatlas.com/articles/european-countries-by-population-density.html
2017 figures.....
Just in reference to above comment that UK has highest population density in Europe....
Might be more recent figs but only had a quick look. I hear that bandied around a lot but it always surprises me. If you fly over the UK it's clearly very empty. Somewhere like Belgium is clearly not empty when flying over it. Trouble is, UK's infrastructure and London-centric attitude means that it can often feel much fuller than it actually is. A little outside London though, you could walk for miles and miles and not meet another person.

@CleopatraTomato I guess so. However Tony Blair was a Labour leader, choosing to relax the immigration rules for the new Eastern European countries, knowing fully well what type of workforce was to be expected to enter the UK workforce. Maybe he underestimated the numbers, but the decision was to welcome more unskilled workforce into the country. How is that looking after the interests of his own party /core support?

@WhisperingPines yes you're right. Things have changed a lot in both of our 'home' countries, but at least we have that option.

It's not easy to know in this country who to believe and who is really trying to serve the public interest. Its all so mixed up

I 100% agree with this OP - this has characterised the whole Brexit/EU debate. No-one is offering information or opinions from an unbiased perspective.

My friend from a wealthy European country is simply packing up and moving back. Her view is that they can stick it up their arse if they think she's applying for settlement. She's absolutely disgusted and I don't blame her.

NoNewsisGood Many of the countries on that list are not in the EU,
What max population would you suggest for the U.K. ?
A lot of the green fields and empty spaces are for agricultural use, crops, grazing etc, we do you think are food comes from?

OP - How is that looking after the interests of his own party /core support? - I agree. and although TB seemed to be doing so much for the poor he had to appeal to the champagne/ middle-class socialist voter in order to get into power. The "Old Left" had been severely discredited and there were a large number of left-leaning people who were looking for someone to represent them. And he needed business behind him to win. Hence the cheap labour "open for business" stance.

However Tony Blair was a Labour leader, choosing to relax the immigration rules for the new Eastern European countries, knowing fully well what type of workforce was to be expected to enter the UK workforce. Maybe he underestimated the numbers, but the decision was to welcome more unskilled workforce into the country. How is that looking after the interests of his own party /core support?

Did he even care? As we now know, he did it "to rub the right's nose in diversity" rather than for the good of the country. Then came Brown with his "bigoted woman" comment. Between them, Blair and Brown did a lot of damage to the country and helped worsen the pro/anti EU split.

I agree totally about the housing comment.

Oh we must build more affordable housing yada yada - what to fill with more people from abroad not the people here waiting patiently on the housing list,

Also the EU has been a gateway for immigration from the 3rd world.

I don't have a problem with highly skilled immigrants but I think the government should have been upskilling the people living here rather than cutting bursaries for nurses etc