To think freedom of movement is not understood by most!

[Onetwothree4]

I'm an EU citizen, lived most of my life in the UK and I can't stand this political nonsense of lies and misinterpretation anymore! Do you guys know that the freedom of movement exercised by most EU countries is as follows:

1. You can move to another EU country without a visa for 3 months to stay, study or look for work
2. After 3 months you will have to apply for a permission to settle based on your employment, family ties or studies
3. You will also have to prove you are financially able to look after yourself and not become a burden on the country's social welfare system.
4. You have to apply to be included in the social security system to be entitled to healthcare, education, benefits etc..

The UK GOVERNMENT decided to operate this free for all approach of people being able to just jump on the plane and go straight to the doctors. Most EU countries (maybe even all others!) did not! You can not do this in other EU countries.

The culprit is the UK government, not the EU! Why did they do that? I don't know. Probably needed the workforce? This is all smoke and mirrors and a big game played by the privileged boys in politics who want the top job.

Just to spell it out: If you wanted to move to my country, which is a full EU country with euro as currency, you would have to LEAVE after 3 months if you could not prove a valid reason to be there. This is how EU works. It's the UK law makers who took a very liberal approach to these rules and created this mess called Brexit.

@Hester54 Yes its silly not to enforce the 3 month rule! Finally we agree!

Hester54

If you know of employers in your area who are paying lower than the minimum wage, then get off MN now and call HMRC's Fraud Line - 0800 788 887

WhisperingPines Or blame the system that lets the factory have a supply of cheap unskilled workers, who are happy and can afford to work for these wages as they are often sleeping 5-6 in a rented 2 bed house, how can a married man/ woman with kids pay rent/ mortgage, work for those wages?

There are lots of people (who typically advocate leaving the EU), of whom David Davies is a prime example, who would die in a ditch before agreeing to ID cards in the UK, bizarrely concerned about privacy issues, at the same time as gifting their personal data to Cummings and his friends.

It is this ideological hang up about ID cards that has resulted in the sort of unrestricted Free Movement we have in the UK. Not the responsibility of the EU. Getting irrationally worked up about ID cards is a characteristic of the "Sovereignty-Wing" of the Conservative Party.

The OP's post really should not come as a surprise to anybody, 3+ years after the referendum. It does go to show how much propaganda and misinformation is out there.

@Hester54 Do you honestly believe that your government wanted to end the FOM? The fact is they already had the means to have control over numbers, but they chose not to. The rest is just political chess over votes.

Hester54

I can see with my own eyes the impact of FOM has had in my area (Lincolnshire) I don’t need telling

You're repeating yourself but you're not listening.

Blame local employers who pay the low wages. Report this factory if they're paying less than minimum wage.

Havanananana Oh come on get in the real world, don’t you think people have, they are not the only company doing it

But it’s the UK government that has set the national minimum wage, not the EU. Lots of UK people have to live on that and try to manage. Other EU countries have different standards that they choose.

Onetwothree4 No the government may of not, for what ever reason, But growing numbers over the years have, hence the vote

WhisperingPines These same companies were willing to pay and good rate with shift pay before FOM really kicked in,

@Hester54 And who lets employers get away with this (if it's true)? It's got nothing to do with EU. Your government policies let employers get away with it. Your country is not looking after your interests. This is not an EU policy!

So why aren't the remainer MPs shouting about the misinformation? Why aren't they promising to restrict/control immigration? After all, if we have the power to do that, surely that would reduce the reasons for why people want to Brexit?

I suspect, secretly, the Remainers had exactly what they wanted and just blamed the EU for it rather than being honest and saying they wanted it.

The UKIP and anti-EU movement was growing over many years. You'd have thought that the politicians would have had the balls to either admit they wanted full freedom of movement, or the balls to campaign for limits. As it was, it seems that they were two faced - on the one hand hand-wringing saying they had to do it under EU rules, but on the other, getting what they wanted anyway.

Anyway, UK politicians of the 20 years, of ALL parties, don't come out of this whole fiasco well at all. How about we sack the lot of them and get a whole new generation of politicians (preferably not made up of the Metropolitan elite parachuted into safe seats throughout the country!).

A lot of what op has posted is factually incorrect and the situation is a bit more complicated.

Freedom of movement applies to certain groups in different ways. To workers yes, which includes those moving to look for work for a reasonable period. So people cannot move just to claim benefits unless they can make themself a worker as defined in the treaty.

it’s is unlawful to discriminate against nationals of different EU states. In the U.K. our benefits system is not based on contributions unlike many other EU countries. So they deny new arrivals benefits as they have not contributed. We could have a period of residency or contributions as a requirement for benefits but this would have to apply equally to all EU citizens including U.K. citizens.

I am hugely in favour of freedom of movement but there’s no point making claims that are not true. If we all understood a bit more about the EU and had more accurate information, we perhaps would not be leaving.

Immigration isn't just about the EU. How about the Chinese cockle pickers who died in Morecambe Bay - they were basically slaves living in squalid conditions (several to a room). That was absolutely nothing to do with the EU etc.

It was ALL to do with incompetent policing, incompetent immigration/border force officials, incompetent local council, etc. I live in sight of Morecambe Bay. Everyone who lived here could see it was dangerous and out of control. The "authorities" did bugger all. It was sickening to see the local MP on TV bellyaching about the loss of life, when she, like all the other locals in authority, could see what was happening with their own eyes, but chose to look away! It was happening for months, if not a couple of years, before the disaster, and we all knew a disaster would happen sooner or later.

So why aren't the remainer MPs shouting about the misinformation? Why aren't they promising to restrict/control immigration? After all, if we have the power to do that, surely that would reduce the reasons for why people want to Brexit?

Whilst I don't disagree with your analysis. This is also in part because the discussion about this particularly in the UK has become incredibly toxic. It's nigh on impossible to have a sensible discussion about this without being derided a bigot or a racist. Remember when Gordon Brown called that woman a "bigot"... he never escaped that.

In other EU countries; much like my own - these are seen as sensible, matter-of-fact talks. Talk of restriction or controls in the UK immediately sees your political status lurched far to the right.

Reporting a factory for paying low wages would have very little impact as we all know. And you can't report every builder, plumber, removal firm, every cab company, coffeee bar and warehouse. You just can't.

If there is a supply of cheap labour business will take advantage of it. Cut off the supply and the factories will have to use more expensive labour.

Of course the UK government is at fault - no-one is denying that - but people who felt that the government weren't listening had a chance to deal with the problems they were experiencing in another way.

Article 18 of the TFEU is the non-discrimination provision these days.

@EmeraldShamrock the UK benefits system is not the best in EU. There are far better ones out there for example the Scandinavian and Dutch ones. That's why they've chosen to protect it by
I didn't say the UK benefit system was the best, it is not it is pittance.
What I mean is the system like Ireland has allowed people to claim for years without paying in.
I am sure the Danish dont allow residents claim unemployment benefits for life even after 3 months.

Onetwothree4 Yes it is true, I find it offensive that if you relay the truth people to want to hear or haven’t experienced, they say you are lying,
Don’t you think I’m upset with past and previous governments/ Parliament look at them now, what a shower of shit

@Hester54 I fully understand why leavers voted as they did. It's not fair on anyone to operate FOM like this and mass immigration would cause problems everywhere if done in this way! But not knowing who actually is to blame for it allows the misinformation and manipulation to carry on.

Hester54

You are clearly passionate about this. Have you phoned HMRC? Have you contacted your local newspaper with evidence that this is happening? Are you in a union (or joining with others) to fight this and possibly picket these factories? What does your local MP say?

I think if Ireland was to exist which it wont but if it did the biggest driver would be FOM.
My rent has doubled from 800 to 1600 in the last decade, never mind all those with no place to call home.

Havanananana After many years of jobs being replaced and your area changing beyond recognition, feeling powerless to stop it you just carry on, what for elections or referendums and hope something changes, I might surprise you, I don’t blame the immigrants and I am very friendly with a few, especially the dog walkers

@zsazsajuju I'm happy to be educated if I've posted something incorrect! I'm not an EU law expert and accept I have many gaps in my knowledge!

It is absolutely true that our Govt does not look after our interests.

They are inept and greedy.

What can we do about it though? The opposition are fence sitters.