To think freedom of movement is not understood by most!

[Onetwothree4]

I'm an EU citizen, lived most of my life in the UK and I can't stand this political nonsense of lies and misinterpretation anymore! Do you guys know that the freedom of movement exercised by most EU countries is as follows:

1. You can move to another EU country without a visa for 3 months to stay, study or look for work
2. After 3 months you will have to apply for a permission to settle based on your employment, family ties or studies
3. You will also have to prove you are financially able to look after yourself and not become a burden on the country's social welfare system.
4. You have to apply to be included in the social security system to be entitled to healthcare, education, benefits etc..

The UK GOVERNMENT decided to operate this free for all approach of people being able to just jump on the plane and go straight to the doctors. Most EU countries (maybe even all others!) did not! You can not do this in other EU countries.

The culprit is the UK government, not the EU! Why did they do that? I don't know. Probably needed the workforce? This is all smoke and mirrors and a big game played by the privileged boys in politics who want the top job.

Just to spell it out: If you wanted to move to my country, which is a full EU country with euro as currency, you would have to LEAVE after 3 months if you could not prove a valid reason to be there. This is how EU works. It's the UK law makers who took a very liberal approach to these rules and created this mess called Brexit.

The Eu FOM allows an open door policy, you try keeping track of over 3.5 million immigrants, let’s be honest we haven’t a clue how many there is, the ID card system got voted out,

Thanks for posting this OP. I have never been against FOM anyway but didn't know this until recently.

@Hester54 just because the open doors policy is Allowed by EU, it doesn't have to be exercised! The UK government CHOSE to do it this way. Workers coming in have to register for a NI number when they start work. How complicated would it have been to restrict access to services unless you have an NI number and certain amount of taxable income to show before allowed to register for a GP for example.

And of course the UK government doesn't want to talk about these facts because it suits their political game for people to be angry at the big bad EU rather than own up to their past decisions!

I have to say that i found it baffling when I moved to UK that I didn't have to tell anyone. I mean, sure the government found out once I applied for NHS number. I was a student so no need for NI.

It's not hard to enforce. Unless you have applied for the necessary permissions then you are not entitled to same benefits as nationals. Nobody will be asking for your passport when you are walking or and about if it has been over 3 months so we do have people who have been in the country over that amount. A lot of people come here for the summer for a holiday (5months) but nobody will care cause they are self sufficient and won't use public services. I've been looking into moving my bf here. With eu citizens it is significantly easier than non eu citizens but they still need the information before begin allowed to work and get the benefits.

I knew this and it has been said before on MN but it needs saying again and again because it goes against the barrage of lies and ignorance from the press and most politicians. Decades of lies are so ingrained that people find true facts hard to absorb - see Hester's posts.

A lot of people don’t get it, my boyfriend is from an EU country, when he moved to the UK a few years ago he was surprised he didn’t need to evidence his income etc after three months as he had needed to do this in other EU countries.

I’m always surprised by how many people think he’ll be deported after brexit!

The Eu FOM allows an open door policy, you try keeping track of over 3.5 million immigrants, let’s be honest we haven’t a clue how many there is, the ID card system got voted out

No, WE allowed it, without any proper registration systems and structure in place, and without imposing other controls we could have. Other countries manage it fine.

@Rezie me too! I also assumed I was not eligible for healthcare, so during my first year in the UK I didn't even go to the doctors! When I found out how the system actually works, or the actual lack of one I was surprised to say the least.

Say I wanted to move back 'home' to my EU country I couldn't just walk in and expect healthcare, benefits, school places for my kids etc. Even though I'm a citizen! I would have to make an application to be allowed back in the social security system. Obviously it would be easier for a passport holder and no income proofs would be required, but you can't just walk in like you do in the UK.
The chosen UK MPs and government of the time chose this particular way to interpret the freedom of movement and it's so frustrating that they are lying to the public about it for their own political gain!

YANBU at all OP

Isn't it the case that you cannot discriminate between a UK and another EU citizen? So you cannot have one set of rules for one and one for another?

It is. Which is why when David Cameron wanted to appear tough on sponging immigrants, and decided that housing benefit shouldn't be available until claimants were 25, he happily signed it off knowing it would kick many more UK citizens in the teeth than EU nationals. From memory the LibDems blocked it, and it went away when the Tories won in 2015, since they had their referendum.

So does that mean that the EU always allowed countries to treat EU immigrants differently compared to its own citizens? If so who was the British PM at the time of the UK deciding a free for all was best? (I initially thought the poster on the Dominic Cummings thread who said that the free for all was a ideological thing was being a bit paranoid but maybe not?)

@DGRossetti @Waspnest it's right that you cannot discriminate once someone is already in the country and has gained residency. However each country can decide how you can obtain that residency status. What conditions you have to adhere to.
The UK has no restrictions on what you need to prove after your 3 month period has ended. No one checks anything. Other countries do check. And if you don't qualify, then you won't get access to public services and you might as well go home.
Who was the PM when this was decided and on what grounds was it made? I'd be interested to know.

Who was the PM when this was decided and on what grounds was it made? I'd be interested to know.

I suspect it was never decided on. Why would it need to be ? It was something that was accepted from day one, and never needed addressing since it wasn't really an issue. It was only when the Eastern European countries acceded it was flagged up. And a supremely arrogant Blair waved his magisterial hand, and so it was.

@DGRossetti I don't think the UK style of 'freedom of movement' is the status quo. Of course it was decided somehow somewhere in Westminster. Take my country for example: their social security system, benefits etc are much more generous than in the UK. They made sure to prevent any misuse from large quantities of people arriving from rest of the EU.

It was actually Tony Blair that had the power to change how immigration/freedom of movement was applied. He was warned against the system that he went with, but ignored all warnings. There are quotes of his stating that he didn't care about the effects it would have on lower paid workers.

He made massive improvements, but he let us down in many ways (I'm not getting into the war).

We had opportunities to change it, but we never did.

I don't know whether this is what stops a few of the older Labour MPs (and ex) speaking out about Brexit. They were woefully silent from the start.

@Ponoka7 Interesting! I am sure that is exactly why they all want to sweep it under the carpet now. I'm going to try and Google articles from that time period to see if I can find anything...

According to a Telegraph article Tony Blair relaxed immigration controls in 2004 after 10 new Eastern European states were admitted to the EU.
He also chose NOT to impose any controls for people coming in from those countries whereas other countries like Germany introduced a 7 year period during which people from the New member States could not come in.
So it was Tony Blair and his government. Yet the UK public blames the EU (because they're told to. No one wants to admit they made a big mistake and lied, right?)

This thread makes for very interesting reading

Yanbu OP. I think a lot of it stems from our rejection of ID cards. It is impossible to monitor people and know when they have been here for 3 months with no system in place.

Has Tony Blair ever addressed the fact that he was responsible for mass immigration in his pro-Remain speeches? I'm seeing a pattern here, John Major allows Maastrict to go through without asking the population for their view and is now obsessed with reversing the referendum result, Tony Blair allows uncontrolled mass migration from the EU probably definitely contributing to the UK voting to leave and is now obsessed with reversing the result. Have either ever admitted their role in the referendum result?

And thank you OP, I'm learning a lot from this thread.

I would have to make an application to be allowed back in the social security system
Same. Well due to being a student I was entitled to keep my social security in my home country. I made an application where I proved that I was a student that doesnt today tax yo UK then I was entitled for my social security. If I had worked in the UK then I would have lost my social security from home country and upon return I would have had to re-apply it. The process would have been easy since its citizen but still would have had to apply.

@Leapyearlover The ID cards would have definitely helped! But also why not attach a condition on your NI card to show you're employed and paying taxes at least, before allowed to register at a GP surgery for example. The system now practically invites anyone and everyone to misuse it. Would have been far less expensive to sort something like that out than sorting out Brexit! And if the UK government failed to regulate things properly in the first place, how much trust can we now have them to sort out something this complicated?!

Definitely worth spelling this out OP. I've spoken to countless people who don't think Brexit will affect their rights to retire in France or on the Costas with access to healthcare (they would need significant capital to make it viable post Brexit) ... it's only about keeping those 'pesky foreigners' out of the UK who simultaneously 'take all our jobs' and 'are benefit scroungers'. When I lived in Germany I had to register at the town hall in the city where I was resident, and if I moved I then had to de-register. The fact that the UK made no effort to track who was coming into the country and whether they had found work within three months was a choice made by the UK alone. We also had an opportunity to put a temporary break on incoming workers in 2004 - our then government chose not to. FOM is hugely beneficial to individuals and labour markets ... I so wish I had an Irish passport so that myself and my kids could continue to benefit from it. Instead it will be taken from us. Still waiting to hear what I can look forward to about Brexit.

@Waspnest when has a politician ever accepted responsibility for their decisions