To think freedom of movement is not understood by most!

[Onetwothree4]

I'm an EU citizen, lived most of my life in the UK and I can't stand this political nonsense of lies and misinterpretation anymore! Do you guys know that the freedom of movement exercised by most EU countries is as follows:

1. You can move to another EU country without a visa for 3 months to stay, study or look for work
2. After 3 months you will have to apply for a permission to settle based on your employment, family ties or studies
3. You will also have to prove you are financially able to look after yourself and not become a burden on the country's social welfare system.
4. You have to apply to be included in the social security system to be entitled to healthcare, education, benefits etc..

The UK GOVERNMENT decided to operate this free for all approach of people being able to just jump on the plane and go straight to the doctors. Most EU countries (maybe even all others!) did not! You can not do this in other EU countries.

The culprit is the UK government, not the EU! Why did they do that? I don't know. Probably needed the workforce? This is all smoke and mirrors and a big game played by the privileged boys in politics who want the top job.

Just to spell it out: If you wanted to move to my country, which is a full EU country with euro as currency, you would have to LEAVE after 3 months if you could not prove a valid reason to be there. This is how EU works. It's the UK law makers who took a very liberal approach to these rules and created this mess called Brexit.

The EU could have insisted that all member states apply the rules correctly

What, so you could complain about our government being forced to follow EU rules? I thought you wanted parliamentary sovereignty? You can't have it both ways.

Face facts: our government had the right to set settlement criteria for EU citizens, chose not to, then implied the EU was to blame for uncontrolled freedom of movement. In other words they lied, as they so often do, and anyone who voted to leave on the strength of "taking back control of our borders" fell for their lies, because we always had control of our borders in real terms, we just chose not to exercise those controls.

VladmirsPoutine It’s not all the EU fault, if past and previous governments want listen, this is where we end up, as we can see for the last 3 years they are still not listening

@Hester54 I Am not sure what your point is. If you don't want any immigration at all, why focus on FOM? FOM also benefits British citizens who want to work abroad, plus most immigrants come from outside the EU. If, on the other hand, you think EU migrants are a drain on resources you are just plain wrong!

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg They are already inflicting rules on us, hence FOM, apart from the 3 month rule how else can the U.K. control FOM

I'm not following the point you're therefore making @Hester54. You seem to agree that it's not the fault of the EU but equally suggesting that the EU should have insisted on... 'imposing' numbers/regulations/controls on migration for its member states

Leapyearlover I would like proper controlled immigration with a visa based system, sorry I forgot that every immigrant that arrives here is an honest, hard working, tax paying , law abiding citizens

They are already inflicting rules on us, hence FOM

Do we need to have a tutorial on our unilateral right of veto? Or the fact that as a member state, the UK had a say in what rules and laws were and weren't passed?

If you don't even know the basics of how the EU is made up and the UK's part as an active, leading, decision-making member, I'm not sure I can help you.

VladmirsPoutine It’s not all the fault of the EU, but they could have done a lot more

"Inflicting rules" But we were the rule makers too. You have a strange idea if what the EU is and can actually do.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg You can’t veto FOM

Leapyearlover If that what you believe, could you tell me some of the polices/ rules that the U.K. have hade accepted by the EU lately

Hester54 - what more could they have done exactly?

You seem to be conflating a few different facts here. FoM is a key tenet of EU membership. Freedom of people, goods, services and capital... I'm not sure I remember that correctly but that's more or less the basis of it.

Immigration control and access to public services is a national competency. The rest of the EU have controls in place to manage these things, the UK has nothing. It's more or less an 'open door' 'free for all' kind of policy which is regarded by other member states as madness. Blame the UK government. The EU couldn't have helped us here.

You can’t veto FOM
Yes, but as has been said again and again you can impose limits - which h our government has decided not to do. So either you think it is the fault of our own government or you are totally against immigration- which is mainly from outside the EU!!

You are absolutely right OP.
The problem lies in the fact that there is absolutely no control of anything in the uk. Brits are very suspicious of any formal identification. There is no way of actually proving who you are. Children do not have to go to school. Healthcare can be accessed free and without any proof of anything at all. You can call yourself anything you like in the UK.
This is all different to the other EU countries, and I mean for the citizens of the countries themselves, not just for immigrants.

The UK has always done things differently.

@Hester54 I think you are stuck in the UKs representation of FOM. FOM is not an open doors policy. UK made it that way. EU gave member states the freedom to choose how to interpret it. Strict or loose. UK chose loose approach.

Leapyearlover Apart from the 3 month rule what limits can be set ?

@Hester54 other EU countries do that without being told to. The UK could have implemented that but chose not to.

Blair tried to implement ID cards when he had no need to.

I've was just given a citizen number in the countries I worked in to quote when I needed services or to open a bank account. To get the number I had to prove I was working full-time. (In Ireland I'm aware you get a welfare card to show you are entitled to benefits. )

In regards to convicted criminals - whether you are from the EU or elsewhere you are entitled to use the Human Rights Act to argue that you have a reason for staying.

Hester - I suggest you look at the full fact website if you want more details but basically we mostly got our own way!

YANBU.

Brexit rhetoric was that EU immigrants were both taking our jobs and coming here to loaf around on benefits.

Onetwothree4 Yes the public didn’t, that’s why the majority who voted, voted the way they did, saying that it wasn’t solely about FOM

Leapyearlover So you can’t tell what limits can now be set on numbers in or coming into the UK

I'm not Leapyear, but to answer - as OP has done several times and others have shared their experiences. You would need to be 'registered' at an address, have proof of income/ work contract. Restrictions on benefit claims/claimants.

There are multiple tools to mitigate and 'control' but as a PP said the general public don't seem to have an appetite for e.g. ID cards. I'm half Dutch and the rigmarole I had to go through when I went back a few years ago was mad and I'm literally from there! In UK you can walk right in and not have to declare yourself to anyone. In some EU countries you must always have carry your ID card as it's the law!

@Hester54 to understand the facts about FOM is not the same as supporting mass immigration. I do not agree with mass migration. I do agree with FOM. But this thread is not really about my personal view. I just don't like facts bring covered up and public being misinformed.

Apart from the 3 month rule what limits can be set ?
The 3 month rule is about ensuring everyone can pay their own way and is not a drain on society (which incidentally they are not even without it). Are you saying you don't want them even with this?

If so, how do you propose staffing the NHS for starters?