To tell you why I voted to leave

[readingreadingreading]

I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.

I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.

I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.

I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.

I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.

No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.

I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.

I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.

I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.

This is Pallisers post

No. the particular political situation IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY prevents you from securing the border with that EU country. There was no civil war in the Republic of Ireland.

MAybe you could explain what they meant then? What is the solution to the problem that they identify?

Remainers insist that we have always been able to do - control our borders and control immigration.

I'm sure that's not true. Remainers never insisted the UK can control EU migration. Your point was, then?

Remainers have argued that immigration and free movement in the EU is of benefit to the UK, or at worst, I a big enough issue, which is different.

If the government thought the numbers coming from the EU were too high, they could easily have stopped migration from countries outside of Europe, but the numbers from non-EU immigrants are about as high.

I’ve been following this thread and am feeling sad that anti-immigrant sentiments of some posters are so important to them that they are unwilling to acknowledge the situation in NI or make an effort to understand that this will not go away or be easily overcome, despite the efforts of some posters to clearly explain the history and politics to them.
Ok, so the need to kick out EU workers stealing English jobs should trump peace and security in another part of the UK, I mean EU nationals claiming benefits... 🙄 Good luck reforming society to sort out these issues like migrant workers living in sheds with people like Jacob Reese Moggs in your corner! Definitely a govt who give a shit about ordinary folk, not!
Sounds like some here would be fans of Trump style removal of ‘illegals’. No humanity.

I'm sure that's not true. Remainers never insisted the UK can control EU migration. Your point was, then?

They absolutely have. That is a main point of the Remainers argument. That the EU doesn't stop the UK from controlling its borders, that's the fault of the UK government. Only now, apparently it isn't.

Sorry

Remainers have argued that immigration and free movement in the EU is of benefit to the UK, or at worst, it isn't a big enough issue, which is different.

@DecomposingComposers

Yes you asked the question.. but given all the previous posts we have answered for you it is a question you shouldn’t have had to ask. You should’ve already known the answer.

To keep going round in circles shows an unwillingness to understand.

Please tell us. What is your solution to solving Brexit with the Northern Ireland border?

Sorry, you went off the deep end at me, accusing me of all sorts in regard to NI. Don't just brush that off now by trying to re direct the discussion.

They absolutely have. That is a main point of the Remainers argument. That the EU doesn't stop the UK from controlling its borders, that's the fault of the UK government.

Oh, I missed the border control.
Yes, true. The UK does control their borders. As does Ireland because of the UK.
Control means knowing who has gone through. Any country can close their borders when they want to. It's been done.

More difficult to control EU immigration and I'm pretty sure Remainers haven't said that the UK government can easily control that, if nothing else because of agreements. Which the UK did delay as much as possible for new member states.

But, again, the main point that has been argued is that EU immigration is not the big bad wolf that the Brexit campaign has claimed.

Control means knowing who has gone through.

How does either NI or ROI know who has gone through the border? I thought that even electronic monitoring of the border was considered a breech of the GFA hence why it can't be considered as an option?

Please tell us. What is your solution to solving Brexit with the Northern Ireland border?

I’d love to know the answer to this.

I’d love to know the answer to this.

I don't know. It will have to involve some level of compromise but if one side is adamant that they won't cede a little then I guess it won't happen. MPs are doing their level best to scupper it anyway. My fear now is what happens next.

If a general election is called who knows what will happen.

Well, what did you think the solution to tjthe NI border would be when you voted to leave?

I thought that a solution would be found by either using technology or by moving the border.

I didn't think that every solution would be met with an absolute refusal to compromise.

I didn't think that every solution would be met with an absolute refusal to compromise.

Compromise by whom?

Compromise by whom?

By all sides.

What compromise can the people of NI make?

Why should the ROI and nationalists in NI compromise? Brexit will without question make their lives more difficult. They don’t want it. So what’s in it for them to ‘compromise’?

That equally applies to unionist who voted remain.

Because other people in NI voted leave and because continued peace in NI benefits everyone.

What happens if Brexit is cancelled? What if that kicks off trouble because the people who voted leave have been denied democracy?

Out of the 62.7% of the NI population who voted in the Referendum, 55.8% voted remain, 44.2% voted leave. If people should compromise for Peace in NI, surely a starter would be the Backstop as agreed with the EU.
What happens if Brexitis cancelled? We carry on as we were. We know a lot more about our politicians from the way they have acted throughout this shit show.
Are you suggesting Brexiteers would start Trouble to be compared with the Troubles if Brexit doesn’t happen? Forking hell.
By the way, you have no way of knowing everyone who voted Brexit would vote that way if they knew it’d be No Deal and that they were lied to about the amount of money that we would save. Or that countries wouldn’t be queuing up to make trade deals and invest.

Please give some examples of compromises the people of NI and the ROI could make.

Please give some examples of compromises the people of NI and the ROI could make.

How about accepting a technological border?

Well, as the Home Office have admitted that a technological border in reality wouldn’t be possible for a decade..

news.sky.com/story/technological-solution-to-irish-border-issue-could-be-a-decade-away-says-home-office-document-11696337

Should they compromise on the terms of the GFA?

How about accepting a technological border?

A fairytale.

Got anything else?