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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To punish or not to punish? **MNHQ adding a trigger warning for violence**

129 replies

PleasenomoreIcanttakeit · 02/09/2019 23:23

More of a WWYD really. Been on here for donkey's years, but NC as this may be outing. And posting here for traffic as I need to make a decision tomorrow morning.

DD1 (11) is a bright, beautiful, intelligent girl with ASD. She struggles with social interaction, reading body language etc.

For months now her behaviour has been off the charts - she's threatened to kill herself numerous times, threatened to kill DD2. We have a family support worker and I finally, after years of trying, managed to get mental health services involved. They did a 90 minute chat a few weeks ago with me and DD1 - DD1 obviously being on best behaviour, and wrote to say they have no concerns and the file is being closed.

She shouts at us almost 24/7 - she starts shouting at me before I've even gotten out of bed in the morning. She doesn't talk, she shrieks. She hits and punches DD2 (and has hit me in the past). School was stunned when I told them this, as apparently she's an absolute angel whilst there Hmm. The past 7 weeks school holiday has been a whole new level of hell and today I just reached breaking point.

We had planned to go ice skating today (over an hour's drive away) - it is something she's always wanted to do, and I wanted a nice family day out (knowing full well it probably wasn't going to happen). Her behaviour all morning was so bad I said DD2 would be allowed to skate, but DD1 would have to sit and watch. In the end I turned the car around and went back home. I said that, if her behaviour was good this afternoon/evening and she redeemed herself, we would go tomorrow and she would be allowed to join in - this was her final warning. However...within 30 minutes she was screaming at me again. I gave it to her in writing that she would not be going tomorrow, and arranged for her to stay at her dad's for a few hours while DD2 and I went. She had a massive meltdown, once again screaming that I'm an awful mother, how much she hates me (I hear this on a daily basis), I never do anything nice for her, she might as well kill herself as that would make me happy etc etc. I snapped. I got a big knife, gave it to her and said, very calmly, that she had a choice to make. Kill herself or kill me. Either way she would be rid of me as she hates me that much. I pointed to my heart and said here, just stick it in here and you'll be rid of me. She started crying and saying she loves me so much and doesn't want me dead. After a while I went to my bedroom and ignored her shouting and screaming.

She came to me a while later, in tears - apparently DD2 had told her that she would rather lose her sister than her mum, but that she realised I would rather die than let her kill herself. She said she hadn't realised how much her behaviour had been hurting me and DD2, and that she was very very sorry. We had a long cuddle and a good chat. I told her that it broke my heart to see her so unhappy but that I just don't know what to do any more. I have done everything in my power to try and get her help but nothing works.

She promised (not for the first time by any long shot) to try and change her behaviour - she says something comes over her and she can't control it. A few seconds after the chat, she asked if I could please change my mind about the ice skating. Now I know a big part of the apology was because she wants to go skating, but for the first time in her life, I actually felt her apology was genuine, and I know that she's majorly stressing out about starting high school on Wednesday and this is reflected in her behaviour. However, DD2 and I have had enough.

So my WWYD is this: Do I follow through and not let her go skating, which would damage our relationship even further, or do I allow her to go skating, thereby undermining myself, and knowing full well that once the skating is over so will the repentance and better behaviour?

I honestly don't know what to do. She needs to face the consequences of her actions, but this is supposed to be a final treat before starting high school.

So...WWYD? What should I do. I am so tired and drained I can't think straight. I am fully aware that my behaviour today was very bad and unacceptable, but I had reached breaking point.

OP posts:
TwentyEight12 · 03/09/2019 11:44

Well, the fact you broke actually appears to have done some good. Coffee in bed, apologies, disappearance of a stutter. Wow, this is amazing. And all from changing the social dynamics.

Thank goodness there is light Smile

Have the most amazing day!

SparklyMagpie · 03/09/2019 11:44

*hand

You need to speak to someone about that.

What happens the next time you are pushed that far?

Derbee · 03/09/2019 11:45

@pleasenomoreIcanttakeit what a lovely update. I hope you guys have a nice day out together. You all deserve it

PleasenomoreIcanttakeit · 03/09/2019 11:48

Letting her live with her dad is not an option - she used to stay with him for a week or so occasionally when things got too much, but we moved 40 minutes drive away from him 8 months ago, and it wouldn't be practical with school for her to live with him, even if he was prepared to drive her every day, which he most certainly would not be. She doesn't behave with him like she behaves with me, as she's too scared to. He was very abusive and I left him with the help of Woman's Aid 7 years ago.

OP posts:
TwentyEight12 · 03/09/2019 11:48

@SparklyMagpie

I don’t think any of us can truly look into the future and say what we would do or not do. As none of us have a crystal ball and cannot predict the future.

Now give it a rest and stop pissing on this lady’s and her daughters parade will you.

SparklyMagpie · 03/09/2019 11:58

@TwentyEight12

Yes Miss! 😂😂😂

gubbsywubbsy · 03/09/2019 11:58

Those of you without children with sn please don't judge the op .. you really have no idea how draining and difficult it is and my son isn't too bad . Some of the stories I hear from school mums ( sn school) are beyond shocking .. she needs a medal not criticism .!

PleasenomoreIcanttakeit · 03/09/2019 12:01

The MOST AMAZING thing just happened Shock. I hadn't washed her favourite hoodie last night, as there simply wasn't any space in the washing machine. She asked me, nicely, why I didn't wash her hoodie and I explained, waiting for the inevitable: But mummmm, why didn't you wash it, you don't care about me, I bet you washed DD2s hoodie because you love her more than me shreaking. Instead she calmly said: OK mum, I understand.

To most people this would be a small thing, but for those who've been there - this is a massive breakthrough Grin.

OP posts:
PleasenomoreIcanttakeit · 03/09/2019 12:02

Aaaand, she's just ruined it by screaming at me and having a full-on meltdown because she doesn't think her jeans fit her properly. Sigh.

OP posts:
PickwickThePlockingDodo · 03/09/2019 12:03

And the thing is - her anxiety stutter that she's had for about 8 months has completely disappeared.

That's bloody amazing, OP, I hope you can all enjoy your day.
Prepare for tonight though when her anxiety may surface again with the thought of her new school tomorrow Thanks

She is a vulnerable little girl. Have you considered that she might behave at school because she feels safe there

No sorry, as BlackeyedGruesome said, my DS was an absolute angel at school but as soon as he got home he'd explode, NOT because he felt safe at school but because he felt safe at home.

PickwickThePlockingDodo · 03/09/2019 12:05

Aaaand, she's just ruined it by screaming at me and having a full-on meltdown because she doesn't think her jeans fit her properly. Sigh.

Oh no, OP.
Be strong. Thanks

Blobby10 · 03/09/2019 12:11

@PleasenomoreIcanttakeit I think that the knife incident, whilst in no way 'right' was probably the biggest shock she could have had and might have been just what she needed. OK so it's been two (or three) steps forwards and one back but that's progress.

When mine were little, my (very wise) mum said "It is never right to shout at your children but you are human and there will be times when you do shout - don't beat yourself up for being human. no one is perfect" . Every human being has a breaking point and you reached yours. Your apology and reasoning to your daughters was spot on and I hope that this is truly turning point in your older daughter's behaviour, ps as well as stress about school and autism, don't forget to factor in hormones which will be bringing chaos to her body!

Flowers
MorganKitten · 03/09/2019 12:12

Everyone in this household needs help and support.
You already think she’s going to ruin everything, she needs support and your DD2 will need it more than anyone as she is being pushed out.

The knife incident is abusive.

Quartz2208 · 03/09/2019 12:16

Does she see her Dad every weekend what goes on there

And I agree your house is her safe space hence why she does it. But this seems very complicated and needing of professional support

Hidingtonothing · 03/09/2019 12:19

I know it won't be in your power really but try not to let her meltdown put you back to square one, see if you can find a way to bring back the calm new attitude. Maybe remind her that it will be two steps forward, one step back as Blobby said and that as long as she's trying that's good enough? She probably feels like she's blown it now so things will spiral unless you pull it back.

FrancisCrawford · 03/09/2019 12:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AgentJohnson · 03/09/2019 12:24

The exchange you had was frightening, don’t let that become of your family norm. She needs help, if she’s willing to commit to getting it, then there is the hope that you can move forward.

This is not just about her your other daughter is a target for her abuse and that just isn’t fair.

PleasenomoreIcanttakeit · 03/09/2019 12:24

Five minutes later she was giggling again, and giving me a hairstyle like those cute little black girls you see with the two buns on their heads lol. Usually the strop would've lasted for hours. I feel positive, like we've had a breakthrough.

We're about to set off and I'm sure we'll have a good day - I'm going to be positive about it Grin.

OP posts:
PleasenomoreIcanttakeit · 03/09/2019 12:26

Oh, and I often hug DD2 and tell her how much I appreciate her support and level headedness. I tell her how much it means to me and give her much positive thanks. I try and do the same with DD1 but usually get told I don't mean it.

OP posts:
TwentyEight12 · 03/09/2019 12:30

Dear God. First world problems eh, autism or no autism. That’s a joke by the way, to lighten the mood... because I’ve witnessed kids doing the same who have no special needs.

Obviously I am going to suggest all the normal things:

a) suggest she wear something else
b) leave her to tantrum and give her a set amount of time to be dressed and ready as you need to leave the house for your skating activity and if she is not, she won’t be going
c) remove her privileges to go skating due to the behaviour with a simple explanation why
d) tell her she looks great in those jeans but she doesn’t have to wear them, it’s up to her, but that she needs to be ready at such and such time so you can all go skating and have a great day

ChickenyChick · 03/09/2019 12:37

The skating is a non topic

You need to talk to a GP about you having reached breaking point

And refer yourself to SS

ashvivienne · 03/09/2019 12:41

Sounds like my DD if I’m honest. Mental health support is difficult when it comes to ASD. From the sounds of things being ok at school maybe her social clock has run out and she needs to let out frustrations at night because she needs to force being socially norm all day that’s what we found so usually we would leave her on her own for a few hours a day in her room to relax and wind down before having to interact again.

Pinkypurple35 · 03/09/2019 12:51

Yes I’d take her skating, only because you got the knife out and I kind of think in doing this you’ve opened a door now which cannot be closed Sad.
I’d also throw all your knives out as you’ve shown her that you are prepared to threaten this, and she may be tempted to do the same next time it escalates.
You both need help and now- please reach out again.

Schuyler · 03/09/2019 13:36

It’s easy to say I’d never do what you did when I’m not in your shoes. That said, you need to look after your own emotional well-being and mental health. You have clearly hit breaking point and you need to spend some energy looking after yourself. You cannot pour from an empty cup. Flowers

It might be helpful for you to separate what is NT teenage behaviour and what is her not being able to respond due to her ASC. I appreciate you will respond to a teenage tantrum in a different way because of her needs but it might help you in your head. I am saddened but not surprised that the help you’ve received is limited. That said, I think it needs to be family focused support, as opposed to a mental health assessment just for your daughter. I feel you’d all benefit from family based therapy and working through all you’ve been through. I don’t know if you have the funds to do privately, as I appreciate it’s rather expensive.

I agree with PP that you’ll get a lot more relevant advice on the SN boards as people with similar challenges will recognise some of what you’ve said and have developed different strategies.

Hang in there.

nanbread · 03/09/2019 13:42

She doesn't behave with him like she behaves with me, as she's too scared to.

Not trying to make you feel bad, but could this be why she's behaving better with you today?

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