to complain to my baby's nursery and refuse to pay fees

[nestisflown]

This is probably very identifying but it's my 6 month old's first day at nursery today and although he's meant to be there all day, I've only dropped him off for a few hours because I'm concerned he's so unsettled there due to the way the nursery have handled his settling in.

We signed him up to the baby room (normal age range is 4-12 months old but they often have 1 year olds waiting to move up). However, in his settling in sessions he's been shuffled around between 3 rooms - the baby room and the two toddler rooms where the are even 2 year olds and a lot more children.

I dropped him off today expecting him to finally be in the baby room given it's his start date - and I was told he was in one of the toddler rooms again. I asked the nursery manager when he would be back in the baby room - and they said not until the start of October when there are enough babies for the room. I asked them whether they could at least ensure he only was in one of the toddler rooms until October and I was told they couldn't guarantee that as they put him in whichever room has enough availability.

My concerns are:

• DS won't be able to settle being shipped between 3 different rooms, given there are 3 different lots of staff and children, and 3 different environments and layouts to get used to.

-a 6 month old baby shouldn't be in a room with 15 toddlers and there's no way he'll be relaxed enough to sleep/ feed (by contrast the baby room has a maximum capacity of 6 babies). To date in all of his settles in the toddler rooms, he's refused to sleep and feed (which is why I've only put him in for a few hours today as I don't want to starve him/ stress him out too much).

• DS will pick up more germs going between different rooms. My experience with my older child has been that they get sick when they start nursery and change rooms. I'm worried this will be exacerbated by being in 3 different environments.

-the staff in the toddler rooms don't know how to handle babies. An example of this is when I dropped DS off for a settle a couple of weeks ago and I told the staff that took DS that he was due a feed in an hour (DS was staying for 2 hours). The staff told me that tea wouldn't be served until after DS finished his settle anyway. I asked her what she meant, and she explained that they couldn't give DS food in an hour because the children weren't due food altogether until after DS left. I had to tell her that DS doesn't eat food - he's 5 months old, and so when I said feed I meant the milk and bottle in his bag. She laughed and said "Ohh..we're not used to babies in here".

-he's normally a very chilled, happy baby, and he's been so upset at the settles, and he's also starting to be really grisly and upset at home, and I'm worried it's to do with nursery.

Sorry for my long post, but would I be unreasonable to complain to my baby's nursery? And WIBU to tell them that if they can't ensure that DS is only in 1 room with 1 set of staff and children during his first month at nursery, then I won't be bringing him in or paying fees until they are ready to open up the baby room for him? I'm not sure if it's the emotions from my young baby starting nursery, or whether I have valid concerns about their handling of the situation which is why I'm asking here.

Yeah I would maybe not raise as a compliant but a concern - you are paying them to look after your son. His needs should be met, you should be able to drop him off (which is hard enough some days) and leave knowing that he will be happy and safe.
It’s stressful thinking your baby is being passed from pillar to post and the people who are looking after him aren’t doing it right.

Raise a concern, and then possibly look at other places to take him.
I have friends who went to work from 3/4 months and they loved their nursery places - that’s how it should be !

I’d be moving him. Check your contract, they may be in breech. The ratios in baby room will be much smaller, they probably not meeting that. They must be understaffed or what difference would it make if they had the extra room open, which means if they stick to their word there will be new staff in that area from Oct which isn’t ideal.

I would look for another nursery, it sounds like they just do not have room in the baby room therefore you should have been put on a waiting list not him being moved around from room to room with several different carers, some sounding totally incompetent. I wouldn't be happy.

I'd complain or change nurseries if it's an option, when my little girl moved into the second room (at around 18 months / walking time I think) from the baby room, I was a bit wary of her getting knocked over etc by the older more confident walkers, I can't imagine it at 6 months! The ratios are much different too, specifically so to make sure the children get the care they need.

The staff in the toddler room will know how to care for babies, childcare education covers birth to 8 year olds.
They can only do what they can ito ratio and it might mean your baby being in various rooms.
I can't see how this would hinder settling tbh.
I don't think you can refuse to pay, they'll take you to court.
He will be grizzly because his primary carer is no longer there, not through starting nursery. Maybe take him out and look after him yourself, then you can do things how you want to rather than institutional care, where they do things en masse.

If you booked a place in the baby room then he should be in the bbay room. I've only just booked my soon to be born son into a nursery for next summer because they only had two baby room spaces left.

If I got there and they put him in the toddler room I would definitely complain because he is booked in the baby room!

I used to work in nurseries and that was normal. I wouldn't be happy about it for one of my dc though. Maybe a childminder or different nursery would be better for your baby.

I would find another place , this flags up lots of concerns . I'm not sure where you stand with not paying though.

I'm confused - if they have older children waiting to move up, why is your baby not in the baby room? Or is it that there is no baby room, as there aren't enough under 1s?

I think I'd be looking for another nursery. A 6mth old baby shouldn't be in a nursery room full of toddlers, the ratio for under 1s is much smaller than toddlers.

YANBU at all! I would just remove my child and they can whistle for their fees over the hrs hes already been there. The agreement surely is for a baby in a baby room, their lack of staff or baby places (I cant work out which is the issue), is not my concern.

YANBU - I would start off having a friendly chat with the manager as you want to keep the relationship on a good footing if you can, but definitely complain if the shuffling between rooms continues to happen (or, if you can find another nursery that you like and that has availability when you want it, complain now and refuse to pay! They aren't providing what you've booked).

Hope your baby is OK. It's such a leap of faith leaving your baby in nursery - the staff should realise this, and manage things accordingly, which they aren't doing here.

Unless something has changed surely the ratio for babies is 1:3. I would not leave my child in those circs.

They are not meeting your sons needs. I'd also be wondering what's wrong with the nursery that they don't have enough people wanting baby spaces. All the nurseries around here have waiting lists, you've practically got to get your name down at conception

Unfortunately I agree with ellie
I see this all too often. Nurseries just don't tend to pay their staff much (funding cuts etc...!) And therefore there is often a high turnover of staff and they often find themselves understaffed. This means that rooms get jiggled around and the children's full needs aren't met.
I'm not saying this is true for all of them, but certainly many. Also the chains are all focused on money and will take as many kids as possible which isn't always great.

If I was you, I'd find a better nursery or opt for a childminder or nanny (share)

They must be understaffed or what difference would it make if they had the extra room open

They say there's not enough babies as there's only my DS and one other (much older baby). All the other new babies are joining in October and I was told it's because they can't just have one member of staff in the room alone for the two babies (I'm not sure why though except for toilet breaks - in which case the staff member surely could ring for cover?). So, I agree it must be an understaffing issue.

it sounds like they just do not have room in the baby room

They do - the baby room is normally completely empty each time I've gone. They say they don't have enough babies to staff the room

I was a bit wary of her getting knocked over etc by the older more confident walkers, I can't imagine it at 6 months

Same - they tend to lie him on his own in the corner away from the older children, but it does worry me that the other children can still wander over to him.

The staff in the toddler room will know how to care for babies, childcare education covers birth to 8 year olds.

Well I had to explain that they couldn't give him food and he needed milk. And also had to rush over and tell them not to plonk him sitting on his own on the hard floor in the corner because he wasn't quite sitting up properly yet (at 5 months). So excuse me if this doesn't fill me with reassurance.

Maybe take him out and look after him yourself, then you can do things how you want to rather than institutional care, where they do things en masse.

As much as I'd love to, that's not an option. I'll need to go back to work to contribute to bills so we don't become homeless.

I would find another place , this flags up lots of concerns . I'm not sure where you stand with not paying though.

Unfortunately I didn't put him down on any other waiting lists as his older sibling goes to this nursery. And waiting lists are a year plus in this area. I might have to look into childminders instead.

Yes you have to move your baby. They don’t have enough babies to fill the room.

Sending him and asking for money back doesn’t make any sense.

Sorry you’re having to deal with it though, what a pain and the last thing you need

I don't think there is a problem generally with a baby being with older children. My dd's nursery had 2 rooms, so all children under 2 were in the same room.

But everything else you've said would really concern me.

I absolutely wouldn’t have been happy with this for my boys. A room full of much older toddlers isn’t appropriate for a 5/6 month old baby, toys are inappropriate and small pieces etc and developmentally he won’t have the attention he requires if staff are used to toddlers and older and ratio won’t be low enough to give him the care he deserves. It’s different at home with a toddler and baby as you only have 2 or 3 to one or more carers but your baby won’t be watched and cared for as he should be.

They should have informed you of this prior to him starting and explained how they planned to meet his needs and keep him safe, does he have a key worker so he has some continuity of care? I would find alternative care and pay for what you’ve used.

Hmm this doesn't sound very good and I would also be concerned myself, however, IME this is also pretty common. You'll often find that nursery rooms are merged at different times of the day (e.g. toddlers in with the babies, older tots in with pre-schoolers) to cover lunch breaks or during the less busy periods such as early mornings and later pick-ups. As such, it's likely your little one will be in with bigger kids some of the time even when they open up the baby room in Oct. I'm not saying it's a good idea...just that it happens. It's to do with ratios and staffing, as well as safeguarding rules.

I agree with a PP about toddler workers knowing about babies too. Nurseries will often swap staff from room to room over months/years and they will have experience will all ages. I've worked in several nurseries when I was younger and this was certainly the case in those settings.

It's tremendously heartbreaking when you have to settle DC into nursery (I've done this 4x already and it doesn't get easier for me!) but I've learnt that unsettled behaviour/crying is actually quite normal for any settling in session, so it doesn't mean your little one isn't bonding with anyone or hates it...they're just confused about whats happening.

This is not good op, i would be complaining and not sending my dc

Another poster said this kind of thing is "normal" within nurseries, i would say only in ones which are poorly managed!

does he have a key worker so he has some continuity of care

Yes he does have a key worker though I've only met her once before, and she was, thankfully, there today. I had to ask for weeks who the key worker was before they were able to tell me - each time I dropped him off for a settle and asked who his key worker was, I was told "I don't know but I'll try and find out for you". I was finally told on Friday who his key worker is.

It really isn't ideal and I could maybe push work back for a month but I'm not sure if I'll be able to find alternative childcare in that time.

I would try and move him, not just because of the room (although the waiting list for any baby spaces around here is over a year!), but the others things such as the milk. Its hard enough anyway, let alone when you have concerns and little confidence in the nursery.

I'd be concerned OP and would look for alternative childcare.

I also wouldn't have wanted DD in the toddler room at 6 months.
The baby room at DD's nursery is lovely and calm and chilled out - perfect for babies; - the toddler room is boisterous!

I would be really worried if my baby was put in a toddler room. DD started a new nursery when she was three, and in there, the toddler- and pre-school rooms were very much linked together, but the baby room was separate. Babies did not belong in the older kids' area as they had toys that babies easily could choke on, like small lego or tiny plastic animals.

I had this almost exact thing happen twice and in the end I moved to a childminder. I had wanted a nursery but actually it was the best thing as my DD was settled and was with two other children being minded.