Cruel and lazy parent?

[RainMinusBow]

Am I because I expect a 9 and a 12 yo to be able to get themselves a basic breakfast? Cereal for the 9 yo and toast for the 12 yo?

Ex has made it worse by wiping their arsed when he is with them, telling the boys I am a lazy mother.

They refuse to do anything and I'm at my wits end.

I agree that your exDH is being the cruel parent by treating the situation like a game to be won at any cost. Sadly, I don't have any good advice other than to not engage in tit for tat with him as he's likely to use it against you.

However, I don't think it's essential that kids do lots of household chores whilst in primary school. I don't expect my DS 10 to do much at the moment unless he asks as I want him to just enjoy being a child. He's due to go to secondary in 3 years time so I plan to introduce a few practical skills during the summer beforehand, when he is about 13yrs.

My kids enjoyed learning to be independent, and it was my job to ensure that happened. A lazy, cruel parent is one who can’t be bothered to teach their children life skills.

11 year old will make her own toast and a hot drink she will also make the 7 year old a toasted bagel and get the 5 year old cereal or make her a wrap.

It isn't a 'you have to do this' it's more of a take responsibility and we work as a team. They also tidy, help with packed lunches and are responsible for their bedrooms, including the 5 year old.

Put your foot down, your rules are yours and they follow, what their Dad does with them is irrelevant. A good friend had the same problem so I told her the next time they whine that they're hungry, she should say 'it's not my hunger so I'm not going to cook' just as her children say 'it's not my mess'. Worked really well and they soon learned their lesson.

The key word is team. I say to mine we are a team, let's get it done.
I feel for you, stand your ground and it will work. It's just making them realise you're not negotiating, you're setting the rules and they will follow them.

Good luck.

Weird metaphor. I have to wipe 10yo DD's arse but she is more than capable of getting her own breakfast.

When kids are with us myself and fiancé we have to try to unlearn them everything they have been exposed to at their dads -racism, sexism, homophobia etc.

Is this code for you're oh-so-woke? I wouldn't want any children, yours or not, staying with anyone who spent their last minute worrying about the bullshit of "micro-aggressions".

If you're not woke, why are you putting up with his abuse? When my parents divorced they couldn't even bear to see each other. On access days one parent would drop me at the end of the road, watch as I walked up to the door, only drive away when they saw the door open (from a side view) and see me walk in. They didn't even have to see each other that way, let alone put up with sarcastic text messages about one another's fiance/e. Block him.

Your children will not be grateful when their peers laugh at them for not coping with basic skills like making a meal and will struggle to find a happy relationship if they believe the "women do housework" shit spouted by their father. They should be doing regular chores like hoovering, laundry etc so they are ready for when they move out.
Of course children would love to be lazy and exempt from chores but it's better to be brought up doing age appropriate stuff than at age 18 find themselves at uni and know nothing. Most young primary school kids can cope with breakfast and by age 12 your older child should have some simple dinners in his repertoire.

Definitely YANBU! My 5 year old will
Make himself a bowl of cereal. I don’t expect him to but he quite happily help himself and he’ll make his 3 year old sister a bowl too. He will even clean up any mess.

My ex thinks it is bad that mine are expected to do a certain level of chores too
At his house it’s all downtime at mine it is what I like to call Real Life

When kids are with us myself and fiancé we have to try to unlearn them everything they have been exposed to at their dads -racism, sexism, homophobia etc.

Is this code for you're oh-so-woke? I wouldn't want any children, yours or not, staying with anyone who spent their last minute worrying about the bullshit of "micro-aggressions".

Ok I am confused by this
My ex is also all of those things and freely expresses how black people and gay people are disgusting and I have had to spend many years myself teaching them that his view is not acceptable in society and not to copy the behaviours at all. The reason he is that way is because of HIS dad! He will even make comments about people with learning disabilities, it is not parents being ‘woke’ To try to undo/prevent these kind of damaging views being taught to children. It’s better parenting

@RainMinusBow - it is GOOD parenting to teach life skills like making your own meals, and a simple breakfast is a perfect place to start. Infantilising the children, as your ex is doing, in an attempt to be the Disney dad, is actually neglectful, in my book.

I have raised three boys - they are all in their 20s now, and between dh and I, we have taught them how to budget, cook, do laundry and ironing, clean up after themselves and do housework, budget their money and do basic maintenance on their bikes and on a car. They can all sew on a button, take up a hem and mend a tear in their clothes, albeit roughly and not to a high standard.

When your ex has a go at you, or the children moan that you are making them do things like get their own breakfast, tell them these are skills they need, and it is your job to teach them.

I wouldn't put up with it OP. Either they get their own breakfast etc or go hungry, their choice.
The eldest puts his foot down?? The only foot being put down would be mine!
Furthermore, every time he comes out with ' dad says', he would be told his dad talks out of his arse.

Honestly? (And I'll probably get flamed for this) I'd probably frame it to the kids as "wow! Your dad doesn't think much of your capabilities does he? I know you're very grown up boys and more than capable of doing X y z yourself - just like your friends the same age"

Have they friends a similar age who do more? I'm sure they do!

"So eldest puts his foot down." So you put that foot back where it belongs!

"I suspect the 12 year old at least will get laughed at if he says he expects his mother to wait on him all the time" unfortunately these days I'm not so sure, from being on mn there's an increasing number of parents of both sexes who are mollycoddling their kids these days!

And similar to a pp I've been a mature student at uni and noticed a worrying number of students who had zero clue how to do basic household tasks!

Plus my own dd (18) has friends her age who aren't allowed to use a kettle or sharp knives! Fucking ridiculous!

Although I have to be honest op you sound quite passive and you and your current partner are being FAR too subservient to your ex.

Stop pandering to him and trying to soften up the kids. I very much doubt he would actually want them full time and I also very much doubt they would actually want to be there full time.

Kids aren't stupid they will play parents off against each other if they can, stop playing your exes game and run your household as you wish.

"When they are with him he just works and leaves them with his young gf who has said she "Doesn't really like children" so mostly stays away from them." Yea, no way he'd take them full time!

"If you don't let him grow up you are just causing him unnecessary problems" omg why on earth haven't you used this?!

I know it's hard but you need to find a way to stop cowering to him. And certainly don't allow your kids to abuse you as his proxies!

I agree completely, @Graphista!

My mum never made me do anything for myself. Got the shock of my life when I found myself running a household with a baby a year after I left home.

My kids are 8 and 9 and are absolutely expected to make their own breakfast when asked - which is about 50% of the time. They have been for a few years now.

See also: present their laundry, tidy their rooms, put their plates in the dishwasher, feed the fish/cat, pack the right PE kits/equipment for school...

I don't expect them to do hard labour and I offer a financial incentive to do things which are not part of their 'core duties' (help in the garden, clean the car etc) which they are free to decline, but I expect them to be as self-sufficient as can reasonably be expected at their age.

If your ex thinks a 12 year old should be treated like a toddler, he's not really thinking in the long term interests of the child.

When my son will complain to his dad about us asking him to get his own breakfast (which he invariably will) I know I will get a whole load of abusive threats from ex calling me a terrible mother and again threats to take me back to court for more custody. Think I've been in court for various things (all instigated by ex) about 10 times now in five years since I left him.

I guess I am so scared about him taking me back because nobody listens to me but they do to him. He gets his own way.

The one time he didn't - he said my car was a "joint asset" and wanted it back - he drove to mine and tried to take it with his spare key. On this ocassion luckily I was one step ahead and had put a steering lock on. If be had have taken it I literally would have been stranded and not been able to work or get the kids to school (which would have delighted him).

It's fine saying stand up to him but unless he gets his own way (and money talks, believe me), all I do is get abuse.

My kids make their own breakfasts, lunches, drinks. Occasionally I do them, but they're more than capable. They also make me a cup of tea of a morning

DSS however is 3 years older and I've not known him to even make himself a glass of water here. His dad makes his tea, breakfast, lunch, everything.

@PookieDo I agree with you wholeheartedly and I am so proud of my eldest for now starting to challenge his dad's views. My fiance's ex-wife with who he still has contact is in a lesbian relationship and no, we will not tolerate homophobia in our household. It is our duty to educate our children that what their dad says is not OK. Same for sexism, racism or any other form of discrimination he tries to instill in them.

I think your sons will have lots of therapy as adults as they try to undo the damage they are enduring.

Definitely not. I remember being young and hating doing basic chores, but I sure was glad my mum taught me to be self sufficient and cook, clean do my laundry, iron etc when I left home for uni at 18 as most people didn't have a clue. Being young it's easy to be swayed that Dad is the best because he does everything for us and mummy is mean. Maybe have a chat with them, they young but old enough to understand it is for their own good not because you are cruel, hate them or lazy like ex DH is making out

I am proud that I brought up my two sons and daughter to be independent people, capable of looking after themselves and able to do all the tasks traditionally thought to be ‘womens’ work. Sadly, my father realised late in life what this involved when my mum was seriously ill. We witnessed a few hilarious incidents like the time he hand washed his underwear in floor cleaner and wondered why he was itching all over!

You need to sit your boys down and enlighten them how unattractive incapable men can be. Sadly your boys do not have a good role model.

Knowledge is always power. Ignorance is not bliss. The more they learn about how to look after themselves the happier they will be in adult life.
It’s all about independence and building confidence.

You are trying to empower them as a good parent should. Don’t give up what you are trying to do. When they are older they should thank you. Stick to your principles. I realise how hard this must be in the face of such opposition but, as most people here agree, you are doing a good job.

In this day and age helpless men are an embarrassment and can suffer ridicule. It’s also unrealistic to think that only women need domestic skills. Whatever happened to equality? A large proportion of women with children need to work outside the home and who wants to be lumbered with a pathetic, useless man who expects to be waited on hand and foot? And what if they are gay and don’t have a female partner? They still need to be able to look after themselves. Their father may have loads of money but who is to stay they will?

I could go on and on. The important thing is that in your mind you know you are right and you are doing your best to raise happy, confident and capable young men. Good luck.

The internet is full of helpful ‘chores’ lists, by age. Start with Pinterest.

Print them out and pin them up at home. Text them to your ex, if you must. Tell them they came from a child psychologist.

@Wildorchidz I agree. I blame myself for not staying until he hit me. Not sure courts would have ruled 50:50 custody with an abusive narcissist then?