To say there is no such thing as "altruistic" surrogacy?

[FannyCann]

To say there is no such thing as altruistic surrogacy and that this fiction is a massive state sponsored fraud?

The Law Commission has a Consultation to review surrogacy laws in the UK and you have til 11th October to respond.

There are 16 questions relating to payment, but they find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Admit women are paid for this “service” and recommend full commercial surrogacy puts the UK on a par with countries such as Uganda, the Ukraine and Russia. The UN Special Rapporteur links commercial surrogacy with the sale of babies. So of course we don’t do that in the UK. Oh no. We have “altruistic” surrogacy here. Surrogates are merely recompensed for expenses incurred as a result of the pregnancy, plus the odd “gift”.
So altruistic that from the Law Commioners own research into payments surrogates have been receiving, the median payment was £14,795.54 and 9.61% were paid more than £20,000.

Payments were claimed for things like takeaway meals and cleaners.

This is clearly State Sponsored Fraud. I challenge anyone to produce receipts to prove their pregnancy cost them £20,000

I also suggest that this puts surrogates in a tricky situation should HMRC or the benefits office ever take an interest in the origin of that £20k. It is very wrong for the law to encourage this fraud.

I ask you to look at the background and if you want to have a say into whether commercial surrogacy should be allowed in the UK please respond.

Here is a link to the Nordic Model Now template which you can download and use to respond in ten minutes.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes//_

You can find moe background and discussion of the Consultation on this thread.

Building families through surrogacy: A new Law - Consultation
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultation

Not being able to have your own children can be terrible. But that doesn't mean it's ok to exploit vulnerable woman.

Those in favour of surrogacy are you also in favour of selling organs?

elvis86 Why are you so keen to know poster's fertility history?

Because I don't believe that any of you are talking from a position of experience. You have no actual experience or evidence to back up what you're saying.

If you'd not been able to have had kids you'd have "just bred puppies instead"? Bully for you. Do you really think that's how most people feel about infertility?

Not being able to have your own children can be terrible. But that doesn't mean it's ok to exploit vulnerable woman.

I have met lots of surrogates who were neither vulnerable or exploited.

Those in favour of surrogacy are you also in favour of selling organs?

I'm not in favour of selling organs and I'm not in favour of selling babies either.

I'm in favour of women helping others become parents through surrogacy, if it's something the woman wants to do.

But a lot of feminist issues don't affect the majority but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be argued or discussed.

I will never be at risk of FGM, I am not in a DV relationship, I don't suffer from the gender pay gap. But I still disagree and speak out against them.

I'm actually on the fence regarding Surrogacy. I disagree with it mainly from the child's POV. However it's ridiculous to say that those without fertility issues can't disagree with it. When realistically it affects the fertile a lot more than the infertile.

Hi @FannyCann

We've sent you an email - could you take a look? It's regarding a post edit above.

Thanks.

pennypineapple I agree the placenta praevia should have been diagnosed during the antenatal period but I used it as an illustration of how things can go massively wrong unexpectedly.

Cancer sucks. Cancer removed my fertility. I disagree completely with commercial surrogacy. I am not a rich woman. I have not exploited anyone. I have 2 children thanks to surrogacy.

Those of you that find the whole idea horrible...maybe you could walk in the shoes of someone like me when I was having treatment, when I was being told I had cancer, when I was being told I could never have children.

Until you have I think you should hold fire with your 'should be totally banned' comments. I read these threads and I shouldn't because in the real world no one I know has had anything other than joy for me, anything other than positive comments.

Until you are in the surrogacy community you can't fully appreciate what a wonderful thing it can be. I have made some amazing friends through being involved in surrogacy. My children's surrogate is the most amazing woman who gave me my world. I didn't demand anything, I didn't 'pay' for it, she didn't 'sell' her babies, I didn't 'rent' anything. My children are my world and to suggest that I have 'bought' them, that my friends who have children through surrogacy have 'bought' them is rude and insensitive and to be frank...out of order.

So safe to assume that those of you saying surrogacy should be banned all have your own kids, then?

I know it’s almost forbidden to acknowledge it but having your own biological child is an entirely unique experience and it often changes the way you think/feel about things.

Pre kids I would have considered doing surrogacy myself, couldn’t see an issue with it at all, now I have carried and birthed my own children I think it’s abhorrent to expect a woman to carry and birth a baby and then hand it over to someone else.

One could equally well say that women who were infertile had no right to comment on surrogacy as without having been pregnant and given birth they could have little understanding of the demands or pregnancy and birth or the bond between the mother and baby at birth.

Personally I feel that this is a matter of importance to all of us as women and as human beings and no one should be excluded from the debate because they haven't had the correct experiences.

As with many subjects we need empathy and imagination to understand the viewpoints of other people.

So if surrogacy is banned and I choose to carry a child for my sister, what are you going to do about it? Remove the child from us both? Insist I bring it up?

If I could do this for my sister or my child or.my best friend I absolutely would and I would be really pissed off if the law said I couldn't do it. It is my body and if I choose to bear a child for someone else why couldn't I ? I appreciate that exploitation a problem but a total ban on surrogacy is absolutely not the answer for me anyway

Claiming you're not in favour of commercial surrogacy whilst knowing that on average women are getting paid the average salary in expenses is disingenuous at best.

Depends on whose eggs your using and how you would plan on giving your sister PR.

She can't just rock up and try to register a baby that's not hers if surrogacy were made illegal.

@SimonJT I hope you have also registered your complaint with the manufacturers of a well known brand of nit comb.

Pre kids I would have considered doing surrogacy myself, couldn’t see an issue with it at all, now I have carried and birthed my own children I think it’s abhorrent to expect a woman to carry and birth a baby and then hand it over to someone else.

Can you not appreciate the difference between your personal feelings about something and whether it should be permitted for anybody else?!

Who would be finically liable of a surrogate were to have life long injuries do to the birth?

Would the receiving parents be willing to subsidise the income lost?

I completely agree that we need empathy and to be able to imagine others situations.
A vast majority on this thread who are commenting are showing no empathy however towards ips.

I'm not an abhorrent person, neither are any of the friends who have children through surrogacy. We are, for different reasons unable to carry our own child. Some have had multiple heartbreaking miscarriages, some were born with no womb, some have battled cancer. No matter what the reason...we are all normal everyday people from all walks of life.

Claiming you're not in favour of commercial surrogacy whilst knowing that on average women are getting paid the average salary in expenses is disingenuous at best.

Exactly PegasusReturns. And the law Commission want to write this into the law. I wonder what HMRC think about that.

I’d like to know the exact cut off age for buying and selling human beings. Is it only babies who shouldn’t have the same rights as everyone else?

I suppose if surrogacy was completely banned the situation you describe would end up being a kinship adoption.

I am not actually against altruistic surrogacy as long as there is no obligation to hand over the child, there is an opportunity for independent counselling after the birth to ensure there is no coercion and there are no large payments of 'expenses' meaning commercial surrogacy via the back door.

However we seem to be moving in totally the opposite direction.

No one has a right to a child, if a woman (or man) is infertile it means there are other things they will have the freedom to do

Cool. What has your infertility given you the freedom to do?

I’d like to know the exact cut off age for buying and selling human beings. Is it only babies who shouldn’t have the same rights as everyone else?

If you view an altruistic surrogacy arrangement in that way, then it says more about the type of person you are than it does about the people involved.

Twisted.

@PegasusReturns I can't dm from my phone but it was inadvertent use of what mnhq admit was a term they were also unaware of the associations and it has been edited out.

FannyCann et all. Could you please present us with the accounts of the hoards of vulnerable women in the UK who have been coerced into surrogacy for the cash?

I assume they must exist, to have informed your opinions about the exploitative nature of altruistic surrogacy?