AIBU to say that summer hols are a driver of inequality

[Teaandcrisps]

Myself and OH have had mixed personal fortune over the last 10 years - so from personal experience know the difference.

Summer holidays with no money is shit - especially when the weather is crap. If you can afford it however, it's great fun.

It's not just the obvious things - summer hols, trips, activities, camps, increase in food costs; it's also if you have the kind of job that can give you time off.

Given that food bank have launched the holiday hunger campaign, AIBU to say that summer holidays is an unequal construct and the 6-weeks off needs to go.

I dont see how shortening the summer holidays would help more people take time off to spend with their kids - where I work either some of us wouldnt get leave at all, or wed all get 4 days or something. And imagine the effect on holiday prices (or do we not get to go away in this brave new world of yours OP)?

I agree 6wk too long
We both work FT
Had zero grandparent help all summer and never do
Costs £75 day for 3 kids in sports club that end at 5 so have to leave work at 4 and work 7-90pm to catch up on work
Detest August.

*When I said that children can learn other skills during the holiday I wasn't talking about horseriding or posh holiday camps. [...]

I think these are important. Maybe I am too old-fashioned and boring*

I’m old-fashioned and boring too

I don’t understand the barrage of costly activities. There are hundreds of things you can do that cost little or nothing. No one is forced to go to the cinema or soft play at £20+ a pop.

The construct might not work for you but it works perfectly for me. Who's to say which is fairer.
We had 7 weeks and 2 days off and while yes I did take the kids away a lot, we also had time at home and the local beach.
This time with my kids is precious to me and, as a teacher, I need the holidays to remind me of how to relax!

To the poster saying when you have a baby you should know you’ll have a six week holiday to cover. This is really sanctimonious. Seriously do you not think peoples’ circumstances change in five years. They might find themselves separated, having to go back to work, suffer financial issues, etc. We can’t all be perfect and plan our lives to the exact letter and expect it to play out that way. Also teachers saying they need a break after stress of exams? Four weeks Is a break no? Plenty of people do far more stressful jobs eg doctors, nurses and they don’t expect long holidays like this. Teachers don’t do too badly really, good sick pay, better holidays than most and great pensions compared to your average.

I don’t think I would choose to live somewhere so rural and have kids if there is quite literally nothing safe to do.

Well people live where I live because that's where they can afford to live. The house prices, buying or renting, price them out of living in the areas where there is transport and parks and museums.

The poor quality of holiday clubs doesn't help.
Mine would happily go somewhere they had to do a couple of hours of maths and English a day. But it's all sport (which they also enjoy, and are active all year round) or cooking if they're lucky.

The problem is that children have lost the ability to entertain themselves, largely as a result of constant overstimulation with technology

This is true. We go to the park a lot and there are very few children there when you consider it's the school holidays. My ds is 11 and his friends all live close by to us but their parents don't really let them play out or go out independently to the park...it's still organised by the parents and accompanied by the parents. No wonder they're bored. They really all should be meeting up every morning and heading off to the park independently.

Met a friend recently in the park. Her DC spent the whole time sat under a tree on their phones ignoring my DC. It was so depressing.

The problem is that children have lost the ability to entertain themselves, largely as a result of constant overstimulation with technology.

Spot on.

if school term time was increased

So you think children need to be in school more? That is a shit idea.

I dont see how shortening the summer holidays would help more people take time off to spend with their kids - where I work either some of us wouldnt get leave at all, or wed all get 4 days or something. And imagine the effect on holiday prices (or do we not get to go away in this brave new world of yours OP)?

Exactly.

Say that the summer holidays are cut to 3 weeks. How do people think this will help stop inequality? What impact is this actually likely to have on people?

@darkcloudsandsunnyskies
Okaaaay. Yes, of course, that would really work. We’d need become an army state to prevent mass riots. And we abolished the forces, who would protect us? We won’t be in the Eu. Can’t see them or the US running to help us.

It’s all going wrong so let’s just set the double flush button and send us all back to the dark ages.

The problem is that children have lost the ability to entertain themselves, largely as a result of constant overstimulation with technology.

Yes! Mine have even lost the ability to sit and just do nothing whilst waiting for a meal - this started with the constant provision of "activity packs" in restaurants so it's not just tech that's done it. They seem to have lost the ability to just wait without being entertained.

I used to live in South Africa and the kids school had four even terms with more even holidays. It was so, so much better than the UK system.

I do wonder if more radical overhall is needed - so that university places can be applied to with actual results - as that another thing that's been found to that disadvantages poor students that their likely schools are more likely to underestimate grades.

Keep in mind too, that if you shorten the summer holidays the prices for everything will go up- activities, camps, domestic holiday locations, trips abroad. Because the demand spread over 6wks will be squashed into a shorter timeframe.

I agree only reason for years we managed a short UK break at all was last minute deals or pre-booking for last week of summer holidays less demand so cheaper.

I also wonder if there would be fewer holiday clubs/childcare in extended half terms - 6 weeks is a good block of time to run things.

While I do think there may well be a summer slump I did think most of the research covered school systems with longer breaks like USA.

www.edutopia.org/article/new-research-casts-doubt-summer-slide

I did have one of DC teachers go on about it - but I remember thinking yes but last 3/4 weeks of the previous was very little academica work done - it was all drama, art plays and DVD watching - little reading and maths I did wonder if it was that added to the 6 weeks was more the issue.

We had many stressful for me summers were money was really tight - but there were free things in walking distance for us - or low cost things it was more food costs rising that hurt but cheap filling food anc batch cooking and saying no to extras

Those saying that there are a host of free activities for children to do are assuming that all children have engaged, hands on parents. Substance abuse, MH issues, DV just to name a few can massively impact a parent 's ability to cope, let alone make cinnamon salt dough with the (non existant) contents of their cupboards. These are the ones which summer holidays pulls down the most, it isn't a simple case of too much screen time sticking creativity and young minds.

Abolish the army, navy and Air Force. Let anybody who wants to come her be able to.

WTF? Utter idiocy. But I'm not surprised.

This is not true from my experience growing up in a rural village.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that you won't have these things available, more that you might not.

I live in a rural village and we don't have any of the things I mentioned. You can't go wandering into farmer's fields because they mostly have cows in them and it's too dangerous (and the farmers wouldn't stand for it anyway).

I lived here pre-children and didn't realise how limiting it would be, because I didn't really think I would have children. Then I become trapped here due to a stagnant property market. It's fine for us, we can afford to run two cars and go wherever we want to, but I can see that for others around me it might not be so simple.

I also don't mind having other children round my house playing for hours at a time, as long as they all entertain themselves, so I don't feel compelled to offer entertainment all summer long (nine weeks of school holidays here) but I know that many on Mumsnet wouldn't dream of allowing that.

I'm in the north west and the local children's centre provides free lunches to children from low income families throughout all the school holidays. I've no idea how long this has happened for but think it's an excellent idea.
The holidays do feel really long if the weather's not great but wouldn't want the may holiday to be longer because that would fall in the middle of exams or just before them

isabellerossignol I grew up in a village like that and there was little to do and summer holidays did feel long though it was only 6 weeks - my parents weren't ones for having others round though.

Oddly at edge of a city or previous edge of town my kids have had better access to counrty side - routes and walks through woods and fields.

As a teacher, the families I work with who are in living in an area of very high level of socio-economic deprivation and who are struggling might benefit from hot meals over the summer, but not more ‘learning’-I think downtime is important for all. Very few of them have 2 (or one if a single parent) parents in full time work, so they do not need childcare.

Having some sort of facility attached to schools in areas like ours which open during the holidays and provide help, activities, advice and food would be a better suggestion. We could call the something like children’s centres.

Oh wait, hang on...

I think the term time absence rules and fines should also be scrapped. For some of my families, having a holiday in the caravan with nanny through sun tokens in mid June was the only holiday they’d ever get. Preventing heads being able to authorise holidays breaks like this was totally unnecessary in my view.

Providing free or cheaper childcare or simply ‘more schooling’ for families who are not living in poverty will never happen.

Those saying that there are a host of free activities for children to do are assuming that all children have engaged, hands on parents. Substance abuse, MH issues, DV just to name a few can massively impact a parent 's ability to cope, let alone make cinnamon salt dough with the (non existant) contents of their cupboards. These are the ones which summer holidays pulls down the most, it isn't a simple case of too much screen time sticking creativity and young minds.

This is true, and there are many children growing up in horrific and heart-breaking circumstances.

Families in the circumstances you’ve listed are equally as unlikely to be splashing out on costly day-trips as they are making salt dough. No one is refuting that some children lead shit lives. I’m not sure why suggesting that holidays don’t have to cost a lot is being presented as a denial of that fact.

Corbyn would...standardise clothing.

What the fuck does this mean?

Corbyn would...standardise clothing.

What the fuck does this mean?

Commie boiler-suits for all.

There's always going to be differences in personal circumstances. I think the problem is kids want to be entertained 24/7 if they're not abroad on holiday they're at the cinema, water park, theme park etc. I think it's the expectation and entitlement of kids that we never had.

As someone who left high school 6 years ago from a middle class family / was lucky enough to do activities in the 6 weeks I do think that more schooling and shorter holiday for those who are less well off is a good idea. It keeps them out of trouble, saves parents worrying about them but also helps them catch up with education and get more attention from teachers who can help them more rather than focusing on those who are educational. ( my father is a head teacher at a private school he whole heartily agrees with me) it's mostly those from less educated backgrounds/ poverty that cause trouble and get into gangs.