AIBU to say that summer hols are a driver of inequality

[Teaandcrisps]

Myself and OH have had mixed personal fortune over the last 10 years - so from personal experience know the difference.

Summer holidays with no money is shit - especially when the weather is crap. If you can afford it however, it's great fun.

It's not just the obvious things - summer hols, trips, activities, camps, increase in food costs; it's also if you have the kind of job that can give you time off.

Given that food bank have launched the holiday hunger campaign, AIBU to say that summer holidays is an unequal construct and the 6-weeks off needs to go.

YABU. From a secondary teacher perspective, any more holidays between returning in aug/sept and exam time would be disastrous! Pupils and teachers are under enough pressure to get courses finished, internal assessment done in time for exam board deadlines (I’m in Scotland btw) pupils who have been sitting lots of exams need a good, long break to recuperate. And, yes, so do teachers! The exam period is long and stressful for all of us.

I agree the Summer Holidays are too long. I think 4 weeks would be more reasonable. If you have the luxury of having 6 weeks off with the children, then that's lovely but if you are a single working parent like me then its extremely difficult.

Its an outdated system that was set up years ago when there was a parent at home. Times have changed.

When I was at school (back in the 70s!), my Mum said we had 5 weeks Summer Holidays so somewhere along the line its actually gone up!

I’m with you OP. I’m a teacher and mother and 6 weeks is a loooong time to fill. I would prefer 4 weeks holiday with the other 2 weeks split between May and October.

But that isn’t what the OP is proposing. She doesn’t want the holidays juggled around, as am earlier post made clear:-

And no I dont believe that this could be solved if holidays were simply redistributed, this would not solve the problem or structural inequality at all

YANBU people who work in education like me really feel it too. A job can look half decent on the surface but when you only get paid 48 weeks of the year it ends up being shit. Yes having the 6 weeks off is useful for childcare but it's far too long. Should be 4.

The majority of school camp users tend to be the yummy stay at home mummies where I live. They don’t seem to fussed about bonding time with their kids, just put them in one camp after another. I think they find the holidays harder after all they are used to having the house to themselves all day every day during term. Maybe they would also like shorter holidays so they can get back to their coffees and lunches.

It's too long. The first few weeks were fine but the past week my DC have been getting really bored and really want to see their friends and get back into a routine.

I'm a sahm but we're not well off. The school holidays are so expensive. Even 'free' activities aren't free. I live in the London suburbs and the cost of train travel to get to one of the free museums is over £15. With so many days to fill up, it really adds up. A local museum near me costs £14 for three of us to enter. Cinema trip is £25. Bowling is £20. Our local climbing wall is £10 per child. Soft play near me is £25 for three of us. Trampoline park is £30.

Keep in mind too, that if you shorten the summer holidays the prices for everything will go up- activities, camps, domestic holiday locations, trips abroad. Because the demand spread over 6wks will be squashed into a shorter timeframe. That means even MORE families will be unable to afford summer “fun”
I’m of the perspective that summer doesn’t need to be this activity packed schedule of educational, wholesome, fun things to do and ‘days out’. 1 per week is enough. I spent most of my summers up a tree with a book.

If you live in a rural village for example you won't have a park, you won't have safe places to walk, you won't have a football pitch, you won't have a library

I don’t think I would choose to live somewhere so rural and have kids if there is quite literally nothing safe to do.

For those saying the summer holidays should be shorter and there should be extra weeks in, say October, how would this help? Surely it’s cheaper to entertain kids over the summer holidays than it is to entertain kids in October or February half term. I’d hate it if one of my summer weeks was replaced with a week I was forced to take off work in February and spend trying to get the kids out and about in the cold rainy weather. At least in the summer you can make the most of free outdoor activities.

And if it’s so that the cost of feeding the kids is more evenly spread out, that’s a separate issue with a cause much deeper than a long summer break. The summer holidays just highlight the existence of the issue which needs to be addressed.

7 weeks 2 days we had in Scotland this time, I was only able to take 1 weeks AL due to only one team member being allowed off at a time so my kids continued the usual routine really. The first few weeks were fine but the last couple they were drying to get back

I think 4 would be enough with extra weeks elsewhere

The long summer holiday is probably about the only thing left keeping me in teaching-the job is so dire
My non teaching job is dire, but I have the added struggle of finding childcare for all the holidays as my leave entitlement doesn't cover them all. There are plenty of people in shitty jobs who don't have that time off.

For those of us who need childcare it's extortionate, the region I live in has the highest childcare costs in the country and some of the most impoverished areas, those two things don't mix for a 6 week break especially where parents can't save in advance because they have no spare money and suddenly have to pay for childcare and extra food, take unpaid leave or leave children alone to go to work. And that's on top of the school hours being so different to most working hours.

There are obviously much wider issues with inequality, but they aren't going to be fixed anytime soon, however some action around school holidays- whether it's redistributing, providing affordable childcare or giving parents better flexibility in work.

I work with families in crisis and the real killer is the loss of the FSM. Kids at home are always hungry and many of these families do not have parents who for a multitude of reasons a 're able to budget appropriately and cook the cheap, nutritious lentil based meals that are often cited on MN. The same goes for days out. There are families who live beside the sea or parks and it wouldn't occur to them to take their children. They will never be engaged parents no matter how much money or time they have and these children are the ones who will suffer the most. These families often have larger than average amounts of children too. The summer holidays sees an increase in ASB and crime due to hanging around streets with little/no parental supervision. In one area I work in there is a targeted summer scheme which is very nominally priced that takes children out on day trips several times per week that has been successful. More of this is needed but the funding will always be an issue.

I do not think I am joking but I am not really sure.
[...]
Poverty is avoidable it should not be built into the system. I hate it.

My assumption that you were joking wasn’t questioning the foundations of societal iniquity, it was your confidence in JC to effect all of the changes you outlined, given that he’s the most ineffectual leader of the opposition I can ever recall.

I think listening to teachers when we say we would leave if our conditions changed drastically is a good idea, as schools with fewer staff will not benefit parents in any way.

My DC loved Army cadets, £60 for 2 weeks all inclusive summer activity holiday.
Further subsidies (free) for those on benefits.
Yet it was full of middle class kids.

NCS was the same.
Those activities are just not being accessed by poorer families in our area and that needs addressing. Maybe they need to look at their marketing.

I don’t really understand the point of this thread.
Yes, people have different lives, some families are rich, some poor, some parents have time off, some don’t etc.
Obviously it means when school is off, the children will do different things depending on their household. Nicer/more interesting for some than others.
But that is life, isn’t it?? School is not there to make children’s lives equal, it is there to educate.

Reading back to posters who have criticised me I honestly believe the issue is people’s mentality.

Yeh because I can just wish myself not disabled, not confined to bed for periods of time and magically be well.

My non teaching job is dire, but I have the added struggle of finding childcare for all the holidays as my leave entitlement doesn't cover them all. There are plenty of people in shitty jobs who don't have that time off.

My point is, there is a huge retention and recruitment crisis in teaching. The holidays are probably the only thing keeping some of us in our jobs. If you mess with them, we will leave-it’s as simple as that. Then the situation in schools will implode.

I’m sorry your non-teaching job is dire, but that’s not what my post was about. I wouldn’t stay in a job if the pay/conditions were to dramatically decline, just because some other jobs are shit too.

@Youmadorwhat it’s not that people hate taking leave it’s that with most people trying to take the same leave off it’s really difficult to get that time off. Let alone if you want to spend time as a family with the same leave.
My old work flat out refused any leave in August and end of the month.

We certainly don’t have any friends or family near that could help with childcare either, I know I’m not alone in that partly due to housing costs people are more fragmented and needing two full time wages just to make the end of month.

If you live in a rural village for example you won't have a park, you won't have safe places to walk, you won't have a football pitch, you won't have a library

This is not true from my experience growing up in a rural village.
We did not have a park, because we had the countryside on our doorstep. There were tons of fallow and grazing fields we could play in along with public footpaths and bridle ways. The farmers do not mind kids roaming around because we would run and let them know if anything was amiss. Like a cow stuck in a stream up to its belly in mud, or a sheep tangled in barb wire. One farmer had even put up a rope swing from an old oak and we’d go and take turns on it. We were perfectly safe as we travelled in packs. The older kids would watch out for the younger.
We didn’t have a football pitch but we could and did use the school playing field for impromptu football match during the holidays.
We played ALOT in the church graveyard especially since jumping off its wall was a favourite past time.
We did not have a library, but we did have a mobile book mobile that parked in our village square once a week for 2hrs. We could order inter-library books for free because we were so rural.

Yabvu.

I'd like to see the six weeks in summer redistributed so we have longer half terms, but to shorten the holidays all together would be crap! Where would schools get the extra money to pay their staff? It would cost a fortune as school staff are only paid for 4/5 weeks holiday currently.

Having children is an expensive choice to make in life, we aren't forced into it and so parents should accept that there are consequences that cost money that it's up to them to provide. Help is available for people that need it, I don't think we should be thinking about disrupting society with something as big as education for the benefit of the few at the detriment of many.

Interesting. When I said that children can learn other skills during the holiday I wasn't talking about horseriding or posh holiday camps. I mean things like:

Spend days with friends playing in the garden/ each other's houses vs 2 hour playdates during term time

Get stuck into a book and spend the whole day reading

Watch TV until you are sick of it

Go on long walks

Visit relatives living far away - shorter holidays would mean the upheaval wouldn't be worth it

Stay up late and sleep to your heart's content

Get bored and learn to bloody entertain themselves

Slow down and enjoy

I think these are important. Maybe I am too old-fashioned and boring? DD created a computer game a couple of weeks ago and was chuffed with herself.

Personally I don't drive, public transport around us is crap and eye-waterigly expensive and i have no funds to throw around but I imagine if you have spare cash there are more possibilities.

Round me there’s a fair amount of expensive clubs for upto 11. 11-14 and there’s nothing. I don’t know what your meant to do with them then, too young to be left all day. But not old enough to do something constructive

Coming from somewhere with 3 months of summer holidays, no 6 weeks is not enough. Especially when neither of us have family close to where we live, logistically we are nervous for when our son starts school and might move to where I am from. There's no leniency towards time off in the school year, like there is where I am from so all family meet ups will have to be done on the school's terms.
And no apart from a week at summer camp we never went abroad and both my parents worked full time every summer so most of it was spent doing not much more than seeing friends and watching TV and playing sports so not exactly a family holiday.

I disagree.

The problem is that children have lost the ability to entertain themselves, largely as a result of constant overstimulation with technology.

When I was a child, my sister and I would spend hours playing in the garden over the summer holiday. We didn’t need structured activities or summer camps - we made our own fun. (And we were from a very wealthy family)